From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Mar 02 19:45:34 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:45:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HNLBd-0006Jj-Ua for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:45:34 -0800 Received: from bender-mail.tigertech.net ([64.62.209.30]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HNLBY-0006Jc-FI for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:45:33 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bender.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D8DD7F14 for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:45:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from Nietzsche.lumma.org (dsl017-048-211.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net [69.17.48.211]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by bender.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8A657F0F for ; Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:45:26 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:45:24 -0800 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org From: Carl Lumma Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojban-beginners Digest V6 #30 In-Reply-To: <31431F14-3A65-4723-81C7-1EB3AF6DAE49@umich.edu> References: <200703021541.KAA10214@Sparkle.Rodents.Montreal.QC.CA> <27AD232D-3038-4E47-82F8-8BA0DD66CB5F@umich.edu> <20070302185850.25D107E47@bender.tigertech.net> <31431F14-3A65-4723-81C7-1EB3AF6DAE49@umich.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: <20070303034526.D8A657F0F@bender.tigertech.net> X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new-20030616-p10 (Debian) at tigertech.net X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on bender.tigertech.net X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.8 tagged_above=-999.0 required=7.0 tests=FORGED_RCVD_HELO, MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4094 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: carl@lumma.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners At 12:51 PM 3/2/2007, you wrote: > >On Mar 2, 2007, at 1:58 PM, Carl Lumma wrote: > >>> What I was trying to say (and apparently didn't express well) >>> was that, in an audio CD course, it would be easier to learn the >>> Lojban >>> terminology a little at a time after teaching some phrases and >>> vocabulary. >> >> What I was trying to say is that I'd rather not learn the >> grammar at all -- I'd just like to learn to speak it. That's >> the real test of a language anyway. All of you who are interested >> in testing the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis can't hope to get any data >> before people are speaking it fluently. >> >> -Carl > >I'm going to assume you mean you don't want to learn any >named grammar. As in, you don't care what the stuff is called, >you just want to learn how to use it. If you don't have any grammar >at all in a course, all you'd learn from it would be a bunch of words >in isolation and rote phrases. That would be helpful for the >intermediate students who already know most of how to make sentences >in Lojban and want to expand their vocabulary, but not ideal for the >beginner. > >If we made something like the Pimsleur style CD, we probably >wouldn't have any reason to name the grammar stuff anyhow. None >of the CDs from Pimsleur that I've listened to do either. Right! >And that's how you learned your first language, so I find it more >natural than purposely memorizing a set of rules. That's the idea, yes. Not that grammar isn't interesting. In fact I could see myself getting carried far away with this aspect of lojban. But I don't want to let that happen -- it happened to me with music -- I got turned from a practicing musician into a full-time music theorist via my interest in alternate tunings that are impossible to play on a piano. Via a mailing list, whaddyaknow. -Carl