From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 12 07:53:02 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HQltV-0007Fg-Ef for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:53:01 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HQltO-0007FW-B7 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:53:01 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id c31so3751270nfb for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:52:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WukCYSR1ewoAhomKrOYxQ+s41fePE6rBOjtYVbf/Bzn69svxzCCRPw8ekMH8X4w7oPqZvrI2DeaSkpgvbh8PdGJ2YyDu4lA70RK08+jXpoxQ2acJszIqA8Yqvgctt1SBP0J/H8VseYcnH+2nBIsxD8Il0QTS/6BmBLSJCSYctNE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SChHm/xx+9m+Cbsz/lmyhzxkqxMyqQsvjvipavRLRzGt2kuidqGWduXUW4+PBXKOmsW9UEfFkU8VCPt1uu+otqnOPUTitLnMYiLm4sMgAUWnY5SXpK/rCQzG+27CCJ0nbwxB7yh6REx8xXqmTCyi34UgkxFsq7IceiO9LJ6RCdM= Received: by 10.78.201.2 with SMTP id y2mr654301huf.1173711172278; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.50.10 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <23dc8c770703120752u53a83f3dmb3815f52204712a3@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 14:52:52 +0000 From: "Karl Naylor" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Connectives within abstractions In-Reply-To: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7C0A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <23dc8c770703120639l1f7e2fa7lc467291e7621b38@mail.gmail.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7C0A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4125 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: karl.org@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 12/03/07, Turniansky, Michael wrote: > "mi dzukla djica janai klama" => "I walk-go-type-of-want if I > walk-going-type-of-go" But I haven't a clue what a walk-desire might > be, (although it might be a desire to walk, I suppose. In case this > statement says if you are walking, then you want to walk). I was aiming for "I walk-desire (ie. desire to walk) if-I go". However, your translation suggests that {janai} interferes with the usual left-grouping and binds {djica} and {klama} tightly, whereas I was hoping that it wouldn't. In that case I think I want "mi dzukla bo djica janai klama". Is that right at last? :) > "mi djica be lenu dzukla kei janai klama" would be exactly the same > meaning as without the "be" because the janai is still within the scope > of the "nu". But if I had used "ku" instead of "kei", then "mi djica be .ua I was confused because I forgot that {nu} would make a selbri for {janai} to connect, and therefore I couldn't find any selbri that it could attach to. I see now. > go", while "mi djica lenu dzukla ku janai klama" would be ungrammatical > because janai ould be trying to link a sumti to a selbri, which is a Yes, this is what I was thinking of earlier when I wanted that {be}.