From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Mar 15 11:24:45 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HRud2-0000Fy-Hn for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:24:45 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HRuct-0000Fm-1e for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:24:44 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b8so256247ana for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:24:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=O6P0+Dr0ingTKWg7sjm2vvdt2FCevloO/469alzBPn+aEt2cy/Ftfb55xeR5FXDPqGTxV4k6sZYhKh+8zRVwOG1/iXQjAdSHqW+SNyUeTD/lMCoEA2fSfL92+WGEUKvdTHiWIIX4ReP1I3Mg/vdASEVjzBWvIYW2F6f1S+gDnwY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dlhOQRne7+ET6ini9jEIqlC3krUt4GEb8EmQ+gJzPhhDQOI9VUNfaLup3cUc21WIbyzdr/cAEKoLgItiRlPghXhmGCynpF1BjSBsDqBM87iJvfzrerZ6SEhhT/EGNzA7Ybjl8Hu4s9gqtRA79HpKqB0aggvBs5HwWLcV03G0cH0= Received: by 10.100.140.6 with SMTP id n6mr753371and.1173983071905; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.16 with HTTP; Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:24:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560703151124k7aa82257v92edfd770d926e7b@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:24:31 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: spofu pemci In-Reply-To: <20070315174354.GM20104@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560703150812g5dbf5055k2a4b6a42112c1283@mail.gmail.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7C1F@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> <925d17560703151007v1f9cf43el82595dcfd93d1f36@mail.gmail.com> <20070315174354.GM20104@digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4148 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 3/15/07, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 02:07:29PM -0300, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > > 5a) su'o cinfo cu nakni gi'e femti > > 5b) Some lions are male and female. > > > > 6a) su'o cinfo cu nakni .ije su'o cinfo cu femti > > 6b) Some lions are male and some lions are female. > > > > but (5) and (6) mean > > very different things (because {ro} and {gi'a} cannot change their > > relative scope without a change of meaning). > > You mean {gi'e}. Yes, I meant {su'o} and {gi'e}. ({ro} and {gi'a} also can't change their relative scope, but that would be a different example.) > Huh. I thought that the *definition* of {gi'e} is that it is > meaning-equivalent to the {.i je} version. Only when dealing with unquantified sumti. When dealing with quantifiers, you need to take quantifier scope into account. > This turns out to not > exactly be the case; the CLL says that all connectives (except > certain tanru-internal cases) can be transformed into *some* {.i JA} > case, but not how to do it. Interesting. > > I assert, in apparent agreement with you, that {su'o cinfo cu nakni > gi'e femti} == {su'o da poi cinfu zo'u da nakni .i je da femti}, and > that that is false, and different from 6. Right. mu'o mi'e xorxes