From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Mar 19 15:56:50 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTQmY-0006ZR-0n for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:56:50 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.243]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HTQmT-0006ZJ-5O for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:56:49 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b8so1271026ana for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:56:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=QO0l5595ppSazIzIbXP0eIhJQyLNWn7EfIqxkK7RZetIuDRMZAeLUFi9Nxbw3uJnrNVY8I2Vu9Gop9gYqWGm8WWCuJwan0YZny/5QDYC+QS4CKMTfYnmiTgarVV8cXuYCIiIDNUUDb8Px8eEq5JuHlsjDgGNF8WA2LlxrHbR4WA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=GTjLFM/PMNwrm6Wf5Sv3upvHnm0qHp7m1vLjWtDezaL4HlErJThmcOc2Af7L4ofX934MYKnjzAwRMLn1Cgedn/BUXCaMdCxElEu4PAGxERA8HPF98EDGa07qzkliMqJT4TXSKO3daNcgUy57iOnfDSZHEPzPzAyd4KvTByjX1DM= Received: by 10.100.142.12 with SMTP id p12mr3159159and.1174345003104; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.5 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Mar 2007 15:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560703191556u7499b17fna28fb041bb436b78@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 19:56:43 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Debug my propaganda? In-Reply-To: <23dc8c770703191337x5b359c8ama7f276c396c99a36@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <23dc8c770703190917g1adbc70cqf1edb7cb8435a8aa@mail.gmail.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7C3A@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> <23dc8c770703191337x5b359c8ama7f276c396c99a36@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4181 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 3/19/07, Karl Naylor wrote: > > In any case it seems we need an answer from some authority to resolve > the question of whether I can truthfully and correctly say "lenu mi > tadni la lojban. cu jeftu lipavo". How does the Lojban tense system > view events that are partially or fully in the future, or unknown for > other reasons? Not an authoritative answer, but I see no problem with using {lo nu mi tadni la lojban} to refer to an event that is still in progress, or has been completed, or may not have started yet, or that may even never start, etc. I have no problem with {la djan nanca li remu} to give someone's current age, so I don't have a problem with using {jeftu} to give the currently elapsed time of an event in progress either. Of course {lo nu mi tadni la lojban cu jeftu li 14} could also mean that you studied lojban for 14 weeks five years ago, or that you will study it for 14 weeks 10 years from now. Your initial formulation, {lo jeftu be li pa vo cu temci lo nu mi co'a tadni kei le cabna} was more precise. OTOH, I'd rather not put {mi tadni} in a subordinate clause to say "I've been studying lojban for (the past) 14 weeks". I prefer something like {mi tadni la lojban ca'o lo (purlamci) jeftu be li 14}. {ca'o} says that my studying covers the past 14 weeks, but it allows that it will continue. {ze'a lo jeftu be li 14} would say that the whole duration of the studying is 14 weeks. {co'i lo jeftu be li 14} would say that the whole studying took place sometime during those 14 weeks (but may have taken much less). mu'o mi'e xorxes