From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Apr 05 10:26:26 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HZVj7-0002Hg-MD for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:26:26 -0700 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX19l0yCQ+0tVBXwg2qqpT1MQsZ0z7NJmEkQ=]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HZViz-0002HU-0X for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:26:25 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007040513255612681 for ; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:25:56 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7C81@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <540020.54772.qm@web88013.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Now what? Thread-Index: Acd3pUlXnPtW7P9mQeC3a6iVeaaSKQAAF2LQ From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2007 17:25:56.0766 (UTC) FILETIME=[78770BE0:01C777A7] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4202 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners A word on Berenstain Bears (which I translated): It's true that I marked it "only proofread to this point", by which I meant only that I hadn't gotten anybody else with more knowledge than me to read through it past that point, offer corrections, etc. However, at least at the level of _grammar_ it is valid lojban (I worked on it over the course of almost a year, so the latter parts (those after the cubs start their homework) are much more fluent (in my opinion) than the beginning). I'd be happy to have you read it, and if there're parts that are confusing, etc., to answer any questions you may have (on or off list). For a complete short story, you can also read my (later) original work "Terry the Tiger Visits the Big City" on the tiki (la teris. po'u lo tirxu cu vitke zi'o le barda tcadu). The are other (i.e. not my) works like "The Snake" on there which are complete, to the best of my knowledge.... --Mike "gejyspa" Turniansky -----Original Message----- From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of ANDREW PIEKARSKI Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 12:48 PM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Now what? Hi everybody! I've just completed Lojban For Beginners and want to move on. The question is: what's the best way to go? I think that what I will probably do is the following three things in parallel: 1) Work on vocabulary (I'll try Quizlet). 2) Read through the on-line Lojban Reference Grammar. 3) Work through some texts. However, I've encountered some problems, so some advice from you experienced guys would really come in handy! Please note, I am not a linguist, software programmer or mathermatician, so some of the past English-langauge responses in this mail-list are difficult to follow (technical jargon etc). So here are some of the problems: 1) There are a lot of texts available, but whenever I click on one, it's either incomplete (e.g. Everyday Lojban, The Prophet), or it hasn't been completely proofed (e.g. Berenstien Bears), or the translation was done by some mysterious CV machine (e.g. Alice In Wonderland) and presumably has not been proofed by a human. Now what I need is a completed text that is EASY (that's why I tried the Berenstein Bears), COMPLETE and PROOFED (how does the proofing process work anyway?). So, in addition to enlightening me on the whole text thing, please suggest some texts for me. 2) The on-line Lojban Reference Grammar is superbly written and should be easy to follow. However, I understand that the section on articles has not been updated with the Xorxo change (when will it become official and when will Lojban For Beginners and the Reference Grammar be updated?) and that there are actual errors in it (or is that just in the printed version?). As a general comment (please correct me if I am wrong), my impression is that lots of things get started, but few get completed before some new thing gets started instead. I would love to see one easy, complete and proofed text recommended for beginners. Sorry, but computer games (which I undersatnd are using up considerable Lojban resources) as an early learning tool do not turn me on. We all learn in different ways. Regards to all Andrew