From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Apr 05 10:32:11 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HZVoh-0002L4-5O for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:32:11 -0700 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.170]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HZVoX-0002Ku-88 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:32:10 -0700 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 32so1171410ugm for ; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:31:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jSVne8mzk2Yuz7x+/wBeDgaTj4/n/cF3biv4Nlc3E3piash7P4eq8XyvDuZaAYNy8AE/K38t2eiX5rKPS3d8QjdcqYN9pb1L93HqOC4s4eCgs556V+/L/pl6FLl9IDiJJr3Bj/sJTUvtW9g2gdY2+bdswei+eYC8xJDZAQKiuiY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MBqTO4/JWnGXWGnHBOYJBuQQDRJs50+tuVUOj1e3ZkXOGuRgf1yG8W8rk6pvxkFmoFtnNwxnGuFXjBbmqowTEv1B3Ry8H+c0YSbYrL9fGXIhcvt40FJCoXBcwKwApO4+ZVRc8zUW7SwvRV4ciPizLO43Rp2ZYMGDe1J5MbbgJvM= Received: by 10.78.171.13 with SMTP id t13mr389668hue.1175794319088; Thu, 05 Apr 2007 10:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.44.12 with HTTP; Thu, 5 Apr 2007 10:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 13:31:59 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? In-Reply-To: <540020.54772.qm@web88013.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <540020.54772.qm@web88013.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4203 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Andrew, Congratulations on finishing Lojban For Beginners! There isn't any proofreading process. Someone will announce they've started translating something, and someone else may or may not read it and report inconsistencies. They may use the mailing lists and the channel to receive the latest verdict on the issues. In this way they undergo a process of simultaneously learning and debugging. I might use the approach of reading reference texts on a well-established natural language spoken by hundreds of thousands of people all their lives. But I'm not sure I would study a completely de-novo language by looking at texts; I'm afraid it has to be a more interactive process on the mailing lists and chat rooms so that a lack of compliance can be gradually debugged. The static texts don't provide this interactivity. I can tell you that the Lojban language has not changed all that much since its creation twenty years ago, so all texts are good to study in that sense. However, no texts are good to study from another perspective: Lojban has not existed long enough for anyone to understand it so deeply that their understanding could not stand improvement. It's easy to determine compliance with the basic vocabulary and grammar, and new learners come along all the time, and they always attempt to translate, and may not do those aspects well. But even for experts, compliance becomes a very fuzzy concept when it comes to the more arcane and exotic words and structures Lojban provides. A committee is still "debugging" those airy reaches of the Lojban stratosphere by establishing clear guidelines for them; this is not complete. Fortunately some projects have been started which will provide a variety of learning materials that may satisfy your needs. RLNJ.org may do so before long. Thanks for your excellent inquiry. -Matt Arnold, aka "Eppcott" Board Member, Logical Language Group