From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Apr 12 11:15:24 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:15:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hc3pL-0005Yw-AF for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:15:24 -0700 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hc3pF-0005Ym-Fm for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:15:22 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx.mail.saic.com for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:14:59 -0400 Received: from 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.22]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007041214145925680 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:14:59 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-its-exbh02.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:14:59 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C77D2E.7A004DF3" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:14:57 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7C98@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <398676.39322.qm@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? Thread-Index: Acd9LjtZM0C8E2MRR5CN1Q9fPdNkhAAAArnw From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 12 Apr 2007 18:14:59.0563 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B667BB0:01C77D2E] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4235 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C77D2E.7A004DF3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ah, but here it IS a cmene. True, one derived from rafsi which have meaning, but the end result is nothing other than a cmene, and therefore needs la. =20 --gejyspa =20 =20 ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of ANDREW PIEKARSKI Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 1:19 PM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? =20 Great! Thanks to your collective efforts, I think I now understand why le, lo and la kandygu'e can be ok.........however, what about "la kadnygug. cu lamji la mergug" ? Surely "kadnygug" is not valid. Doesn't CLL state that a CVC rafsi cannot be at the end of a word? =20 - Andrew ----- Original Message ---- From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:33:21 AM Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what? On 4/12/07, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote:=20 But in the real world, unless I am writing about alternate universes, I have only one specific Canada in mind - so surely it must be "le kadnygu'e"? Not quite. In the sentence I used before (lo kadnygu'e cu lamji lo mergu'e), the sense of 'Canada' is quite clear. But imagine someone leaving Canada & returning years later, finding it changed, and saying, "The Canada I remember has ceased to exist." I would go with le there: le kadnygu'e poi mi morji fi ke'a cu pu co'u zasti In the real world, Canada is what it is. But in people's minds, there are different Canadas. You could use 'la' there too.=20 =20 As far as "la kadnygu'e" is concerned, "kadnygu'e" would have to be a name, but section 4.8 of the CLL says "Names may have almost any form, but always end in a consonant". So how can it be acceptable? Take a look at 6:2.6 -2.11. la/lai/la'i can take a selbri as well as a cmene. But a cmene can only take la/lai/la'i, whereas a selbri can take any of the gadri (lo, le, la, loi, &c.). The restriction is one-way. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan=20 =20 =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C77D2E.7A004DF3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  Ah, but here it IS a = cmene.  True, one derived from rafsi which have meaning, but the end result is nothing = other than a cmene, and therefore needs la.

 

      =             &= nbsp;       = --gejyspa

 

 

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org = [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of ANDREW PIEKARSKI
Sent: Thursday, April 12, = 2007 1:19 PM
To: = lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: = [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what?

 

Great!  Thanks to your collective efforts, I = think I now understand why le, lo and la kandygu'e can be ok.........however, = what about  "la kadnygug. cu lamji la mergug" ? Surely "kadnygug" is not valid.  Doesn't CLL state that a = CVC rafsi cannot be at the end of a word?

 

- = Andrew

----- Original Message ----
From: "komfo,amonan" <komfoamonan@gmail.com>
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 11:33:21 AM
Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Now what?

On 4/12/07, ANDREW = PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote: =

But in the real world, unless I am writing about alternate = universes, I have only one specific Canada in mind - so surely it must be "le = kadnygu'e"?


Not quite. In the sentence I used before (lo kadnygu'e cu lamji lo = mergu'e), the sense of 'Canada' is quite clear. But imagine someone leaving Canada & returning = years later, finding it changed, and saying, "The Canada I remember has ceased = to exist." I would go with le = there:

le kadnygu'e poi mi morji fi ke'a cu pu co'u zasti

In the real world, Canada is what it is. But in people's minds, there are different = Canadas. You could use 'la' there too.

 

As far as "la kadnygu'e" is concerned, = "kadnygu'e" would have to be a name, but section 4.8 of the CLL says "Names may = have almost any form, but always end in a consonant".  So how = can it be acceptable?


Take a look at 6:2.6 -2.11. la/lai/la'i can take a selbri as well = as a cmene. But a cmene can only take la/lai/la'i, whereas a selbri can take = any of the gadri (lo, le, la, loi, &c.). The restriction is one-way.

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

 

 

 

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