From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Apr 16 09:01:08 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HdTdR-00040Q-Uz for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:01:00 -0700 Received: from web88015.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.39.220]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HdTdI-00040H-Ne for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:00:55 -0700 Received: (qmail 73828 invoked by uid 60001); 16 Apr 2007 16:00:41 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Message-ID; b=UWsSjC1botdkL61c6haJPuLvCR8M+6HdNWhuThkDdPj8ZEXQFKhDyvqVAX6jhTx2lJ5Cwq6QS1w0BMCXL4ofOWHDnsJKuvldZGdKBtcJb0etyc15IyjrrNG+XEa3zbiL0EK5Al2JV1V4YS1XryPgdEysfkrTWM2QnxlGiTVdy0c=; X-YMail-OSG: TsOOvXAVM1n6V4Nof0_1Ix6gmhShjb3nNXDSlOhucRion4MsitZbBFt1j63F2IfxfkUPD3cBsYnu2AeGm5_.XQTXOnNmc8zf5TXP4RZG.MU.dOkgHAKToycUkGrJ7mTM0RZC2z.R8Ylq3bY- Received: from [74.96.97.233] by web88015.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:00:40 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:00:40 -0700 (PDT) From: ANDREW PIEKARSKI Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Vocabulary To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ascii Message-ID: <607260.73796.qm@web88015.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: -6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4269 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners I guess that clears up my questions on cmevla and lujvo - at least for the moment. Thanks for your patience, everyone. fe'o mi'e .andrus. ----- Original Message ---- From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 2:14:20 AM Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Vocabulary On Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 03:08:15PM -0700, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > So, following three responses, this is my understanding of how > cmevla and lujvo enter the langauge: > > CMEVLA > > 1) Anyone can create these, but these must follow the morphology > rules for cmene stated in Chapter 4 of the Reference Grammar > (please note, though, the word "cmevla" does not appear there). "cmene valsi" isn't exactly complicated. [snip] > 3) In any case, they do not enter a cmevla list or dictionary i.e. > lojbanists need to remember them, note them down individually or > whatever. Important ones certainly could be put into jbovlaste; it has the facility for it. But in general, cmene are useless outside of context. Why should I tell you that John's name is .djan. if you haven't met him? For that matter, if you don't know who he is, *how* would I convey to you the association between the person and the name. > LUJVO [snip] > 2) Robin decides who gets a Jbovlaste account. Anybody with an > account can vote. Robin often solicits others' opinions, for the record. > 3) Once a new lujvo is approved by the voting process, it becomes > official - which means (if I understand Pierre) that it enters the > official baselined lists in gimste, mao'ste and CLL. Good lord no! For one thing, gimste == gismu liste, and hence doesn't have lujvo. ma'oste == cmavo list, and hence doesn't have lujvo, and the CLL has no lujvo lists that I'm aware of. There is nothing official about jbovlaste yet; some day, it may (or may not) be used to make a dictionary, but if it is, it will be edited in various ways I'm sure. Until then, it's just a community project. > First of all, please confirm my understanding is correct. > > The inevitable questions are: > > 1) Robin, how do you decide who gets an account? I assume that I > would not as I am only a beginning beginner. Demonstrated ability to form complete (that is, fully defined) lujvo that aren't obviously broken. A decent understanding of the language as a whole is a plus. > 2) How many votes must be received before the lujvo becomes > official? Please stop using the word "official" here; it doesn't pertain. The number of jbovlaste votes required before the word shows up in the jbovlaste search engine or in a for-printing dictionary dump is "more than all the other definitions for the same word", which almost always means that 1 vote is sufficient. > 3)The lists referred to above seem to be for gismu and cmavo - so > where are the official lujvo? There aren't any. > 4) Where do I find the CLL list? I thought the CLL is the same as > the online Reference Grammar, and there is no word list there. It is, and there isn't. I have no idea where you got the idea that the CLL has word lists. -Robin