From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Apr 17 09:29:20 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:29:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HdqYR-0003Xk-NK for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:29:20 -0700 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HdqYI-0003X0-Ld for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:29:19 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx.mail.saic.com for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:28:49 -0400 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007041712284928680 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:28:49 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:28:49 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban geography and cultures Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:28:49 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7CA0@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <200704171210.01471.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: Lojban geography and cultures Thread-Index: AceBCzUGoemzD8MoTx2qF5BELNGfhwAAII1w From: "Turniansky, Michael" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Apr 2007 16:28:49.0403 (UTC) FILETIME=[7A8DF4B0:01C7810D] X-Spam-Score: -2.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: -24 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 4278 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners la pier cusku lu On Tuesday 17 April 2007 07:28, Turniansky, Michael wrote: (Why is there a native word > (gismu) for lions, tigers, and elephants, but none for zebras, rhinos, > or hippo (or antelope, but I suppose some would argue "mirli" can be > used for that)? Why for rat and mouse and rabbit, but not squirrel or > raccoon (or even "rodent" in general)? Why for rose and tulip, but not > for daisy or lily? Etc. etc.) Everything comes down to choices made by > the language creators, and as such, represents a bias of some sort or > other. So I don't personally speak of lojban as "culturally-neutral" > except when it comes to the grammar and word sources. Period. lo antilope na mirli. The zebra is tirxyxi'a, hippo is ri'erxi'a (even though it isn't a horse), and for rhino how about zbijirnymabru? squirrel is ricyratcu, raccoon is either prokiono or lumge'u. ------------------------------------------------ I didn't say there wasn't ANY way to describe those animals, (and FWIW, I went with (the also-proposed) xirmrxipotigre for "zebra" in my Terry the Tiger story, since I take the attitude of "When in doubt, use the international classification when it comes to plants and animals", even though it might make it less accessible to the layman, because it eliminates any doubt of the animal meant.) I specifically said there weren't any gismu. Lack of gismu is indicative of "this concept isn't basic enough and/or important enough to warrant ease of production." Which things make the cut and which don't is, by definition, a bias. --gejyspa