From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun May 20 12:01:08 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 20 May 2007 12:01:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HpqeK-0005Fu-U5 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 20 May 2007 12:01:04 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.225]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hpqe4-0005FZ-En for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 20 May 2007 12:00:50 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i30so2433774wxd for ; Sun, 20 May 2007 12:00:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=SrGmGQNiixJAFusHniUcAqa47B1D6Wq/nXaJDo0sMeohbub+8l1/wUsdEhyVNTsx6EfFdKH0K+Oh8mti5Pxl7NjCsUxu84JPgiMWNGB0xZeFEg2aZyAN83F+CLdu75R2IQxyJ7aVaMD7xpg1zrEkFTfCTr67fNsexerHwY1YQYQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=ExOvx7G+zIWUHtaVcImd2hTbmw7QqBptKBnfmsjdTzJfKjIuDQ3yphB1RSM3abFWpsZhMerd5+LiPLVaZpREHry/0Wumn/8kIGfRq4NlyiXMCk0osrYAWWSwP113jMmqanwuQS/cC+dar2aR+ZWkI7FJ2Wfp3mveVgFrEzybhZQ= Received: by 10.70.59.20 with SMTP id h20mr5889887wxa.1179687642991; Sun, 20 May 2007 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.9.19 with HTTP; Sun, 20 May 2007 12:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0705201200m2d51977av421055dead3bffbb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:00:42 +0100 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: distinction between gismu & cmavo In-Reply-To: <20070520174103.GK7871@digitalkingdom.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_43320_13626202.1179687642900" References: <2f91285f0705201027w32358e69v3e6093496d67cc5d@mail.gmail.com> <20070520174103.GK7871@digitalkingdom.org> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4546 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_43320_13626202.1179687642900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you Robin. It's great to have a reply from someone like you. Just to further improve my understanding of it: cmavo is explained to be a "structure word" (on the word lists, for example), which is confusing to me because gismu seems to have stronger characteristics of that word which realizes a certain structural relationship between other words. Those conjunction cmavo like {e} or {joi}, as Pierre has pointed out, yes I can recognize their structural functions; but as to {mi} or {do}, how come they are called "structure words"? And also there're rafsi's and gismu's given meanings, "affix" and "root word, respectively; to me it is cmavo which seems to be an "affix" more than rafsi does, and rafsi to be a "root word" more than gismu does. Can I have a nice explanation for this, or is it some historical thing concerning Loglan? sintef On 5/20/07, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > On Sun, May 20, 2007 at 06:27:31PM +0100, Vid Sintef wrote: > > My understanding is that every gismu consists of 5 letters. But on > > the gismu list I find those various words of less than 5 letters. > > {mi} is an example. > > {mi} is a cmavo; it is listed on the gismu list solely because it > has a rafsi, and the cmavo list format doesn't have room for those. > > -Robin > > -- > http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/*** > http://www.lojban.org/ > Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" > Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/ > > > > ------=_Part_43320_13626202.1179687642900 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Thank you Robin. It's great to have a reply from someone like you.
Just to further improve my understanding of it:
cmavo is explained to be a "structure word" (on the word lists, for example), which is confusing to me because gismu seems to have stronger characteristics of that word which realizes a certain structural relationship between other words. Those conjunction cmavo like {e} or {joi}, as Pierre has pointed out, yes I can recognize their structural functions; but as to {mi} or {do}, how come they are called "structure words"? And also there're rafsi's and gismu's given meanings, "affix" and "root word, respectively; to me it is cmavo which seems to be an "affix" more than rafsi does, and rafsi to be a "root word" more than gismu does. Can I have a nice explanation for this, or is it some historical thing concerning Loglan?

sintef



On 5/20/07, Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
On Sun, May 20, 2007 at 06:27:31PM +0100, Vid Sintef wrote:
> My understanding is that every gismu consists of 5 letters. But on
> the gismu list I find those various words of less than 5 letters.
> {mi} is an example.

{mi} is a cmavo; it is listed on the gismu list solely because it
has a rafsi, and the cmavo list format doesn't have room for those.

-Robin

--
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/




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