From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed May 23 19:49:49 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 23 May 2007 19:49:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hr3Oe-0004dz-KZ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:49:48 -0700 Received: from phma.optus.nu ([166.82.175.165] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hr3Ob-0004dr-R8 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 23 May 2007 19:49:48 -0700 Received: from chausie (unknown [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120B9CE901 for ; Wed, 23 May 2007 22:49:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: lojbanization Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 22:49:41 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <2f91285f0705230545h102beb4q6548c42b932bf299@mail.gmail.com> <200705231300.36803.phma@phma.optus.nu> <2f91285f0705231102u5aafcee0s74b748088cd05ba7@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0705231102u5aafcee0s74b748088cd05ba7@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200705232249.42243.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: 5 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4635 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Wednesday 23 May 2007 14:02, Vid Sintef wrote: > True! > I think {sidbrxolona}, {sidbrxoloni}, and {sidbrxolonu} are also valid > according to the Book. > You say "opinions"; could you tell me some of that differing criteria? Some people like to use the vowel that was dropped from the gismu as the last vowel of the fu'ivla, or repeat the previous vowel of the fu'ivla as the last. In this case, those would both result in {sidbrxolono}. The others are also valid, as you figured out. I'm not sure whether the final "n" should be dropped or not. It depends on whether Koestler was thinking "το ολον, του ολου" (just the neuter form of "holos") or "ο ολων, του ολωνος" (adding a suffix). In the former case I would drop it; in the latter I would not. When lojbanizing a Latin word ending in "-us" or "-um", those being the second declension ending, the "s" or "m" is dropped. The vowel may be left as "u" or changed to "o" (which is the corresponding ending in several Romance languages). I don't consistently do it either way. I came up with {trixexu} for "manatee", someone else said {trixexo}, and I consider them both valid variants. Pierre