From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue May 29 10:52:17 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 29 May 2007 10:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ht5rk-0000UJ-7d for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:52:16 -0700 Received: from 25.mail-out.ovh.net ([213.186.37.103]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Ht5rg-0000UA-7d for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 29 May 2007 10:52:15 -0700 Received: (qmail 31269 invoked by uid 503); 29 May 2007 17:49:22 -0000 Received: (QMFILT: 1.0); 29 May 2007 17:49:22 -0000 Received: from b7.ovh.net (HELO mail9.ha.ohv.net) (213.186.33.57) by 25.mail-out.ovh.net with SMTP; 29 May 2007 17:49:22 -0000 Received: from b0.ovh.net (HELO queue-out) (213.186.33.50) by b0.ovh.net with SMTP; 29 May 2007 17:51:50 -0000 Received: from 219.45-225-89.dsl.completel.net (219.45-225-89.dsl.completel.net [89.225.45.219]) by ssl0.ovh.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Tue, 29 May 2007 19:51:50 +0200 Message-ID: <1180461110.465c6836037ea@ssl0.ovh.net> Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 19:51:50 +0200 From: m.kornig@sondal.net To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: dicussions about basic vocabulary MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 89.225.45.219 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: 6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4773 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: m.kornig@sondal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Selon Matt Arnold : > However, the intuitive naturalistic approach must be tempered by > including some instruction in place structure and other explanations > of the oddities the learner experiences, or they will be completely > lost. Feel free to work on your learning tool in any way you wish, but > if your goal is to teach how to speak basic Lojban while concealing > how Lojban is radically different from English, that method > contradicts that goal. > > They won't learn to speak basic Lojban. They'll learn to speak > malglico and then have to unlearn it. Actually, I want to take a multi-lingual approach right from the beginning. So my learning tool won't comment on the differences between Lojban and English (or any other language), at least not explicitly. > According to the word frequency list at > http://teddyb.org/~rlpowell/hobbies/lojban/flashcards/big_list , some > of the most important words in Lojban are "le" "lo" ".i" "cu" "nu" > "se" and "be". English has no words for these. Even basic Lojban > cannot be spoken without them. Yes I realize the importants of these "little" words. My list however does only list "mi" and "do" and the numbers "pa", "re", "ci", etc. directly. I've done this because most languages seem to have equivalents. So these words can be translated meaningfully (into any language?). Other little words like "na", "ko" and "ma" only appear in little phrases or sentences, i.e. indirectly. The phrases are for example: "ko denpa", "mi na jimpe", "na go'i" and "ma cmene do". I feel it makes more sense to present (and learn) these words in such phrases or sentences rather than "stand alone". Martin