From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Jun 01 11:00:40 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:00:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HuBQR-0002QW-68 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:00:37 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.245]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HuBQD-0002Pw-Oo for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:00:33 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so206592ana for ; Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:00:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=W5svvihlRZpyAMVFL/6rNcGYXKf/koBnC8cJhPLlI58+Viiq7cr3rZXS0rvGbmCn1RQShSTSUr0l6RgYI2cDSrjdfIk214zz0jQEDEHpMtMve73L9o9EZdr9JhR9lUNynaMt0MK0YHOYtXB6uA8yn90EAISLRLT6vvUXaBTz4Zk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=THWlYLH3xfzgBH8DIujjpJkk1AKEty68d6nAmSEdW2ozdNjcgdsNKTwS0+8S/mTOcA1Zmej05q3RR/Uyh6YZfG6/t9Mkeb8FFWyv/m3CsqwKUbF/2Z4lCsF/GizaNqD2axelAwyIfnIH7J9sev1yEmM9twVpr2zIkEkpxwx1xQU= Received: by 10.100.248.18 with SMTP id v18mr1183540anh.1180720812872; Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.12 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Jun 2007 11:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560706011100v664c20abp506ea43016c81752@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 15:00:12 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: la melpelkre .e le ci cribe In-Reply-To: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D6E@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <23dc8c770706010811s7d8a6a1dg9b0aaee9514a65c1@mail.gmail.com> <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D6E@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4808 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/1/07, Turniansky, Michael [UNK] wrote: > > On 01/06/07, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > > > > How can > > > they tell that someone has been actually _sleeping_ on their bed? > > doi xorxes .i do na cribe bu'u la .internet. no da djuno lo du'u mi .y su ko tolmorji zo'o > .i do djuno fi la'ede'u ma .i zo'o cumki fa le nu loi cribe cu djuno fi > loi nu da pu sipna sedi'o de ku'i le cribe va'o lo nu jinvi la'e di'u cu srera .i le nixli ba'e na sipna bu'u le jdari ja ranti ckana > > There doesn't seem to be any specific locus on the bed > > that is relevant here. > > Which is why I used sedi'o, not di'o. The bed is the specific locus. > The tedi'o is the room. I've always been very uncomfortable with {di'o} and now I think I see why. {diklo} is a relationship between locations: a precise locus x1 on something else x2, some other location. There is no place for anything that is located or happens in either of those locations. That's why I can't relate the event of sleeping to anything tagged by {diklo}. {se di'o le ckana} tells me that the bed is a location with some specific (unmentioned) locus and within some range (the room, you say), and what does that have to do with someone sleeping? {bu'u} (= fi'o se zvati) expresses the {zvati} relationship: {lo nu sipna cu zvati le ckana}. mu'o mi'e xorxes