From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 03 15:44:24 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:44:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HuyoB-0003Cq-GN for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:44:23 -0700 Received: from phma.optus.nu ([166.82.175.165] helo=ixazon.dynip.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Huyo8-0003AU-PY for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2007 15:44:23 -0700 Received: from chausie (unknown [192.168.7.4]) by ixazon.dynip.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD583CEA9F for ; Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:39:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: fanva 2 Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 21:39:34 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.5 References: <2f91285f0706021536u380fc52eu611e6c6eaee1956@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0706021536u380fc52eu611e6c6eaee1956@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200706022139.34742.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.5 X-Spam-Score-Int: 5 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4845 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Saturday 02 June 2007 18:36, Vid Sintef wrote: > Each piece of translation is followed by some notes of mine. > > > la borat.sagdi,iev. me le kazak karnyfi'u co cfika fi'e la > sacat.baron.koxen. no'u le brito jibxam > Borat Sagdiyev is a fictional Kazakh journalist portrayed by British > comedian Sacha Baron Cohen. > > * {kazak} is my invention (I couldn't find an official one). > * {fi'e} is not meant to be a true translation of "portrayed by", but I > think it's equally reasonable here. I would say {kazax}. You need either {me la kazax} ({le kazak} is ungrammatical) or a fu'ivla such as {natmrkazaxa}. I think Cohen is better as {ko'en}. {jibxam} is not a well-formed word. Is Sacha a man or a woman? {sacat} sounds feminine, but since it's not of Afro-Asiatic origin, I'm confused. ({borat}, as Kazakh is quite unrelated to Semitic and as I've never heard of such a name, does not suggest that to me.) > .i le go'i cu ralju xalpre pe la'o gy Borat: Cultural Learnings of America > for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan gy po'u le snada je selfapro > casylis > He is the eponymous protagonist of the controversial and successful > mockumentary Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious > Nation of Kazakhstan. > > * For "mockumentary" I'm experimenting with {casylis}. mi na djuno le du'u do skudji ma, but lo xalpre is an alcohol person. {casylis} should be {casylisri}. > .i puku la baron.koxen. ba'o tigni le nalselcme je fange terlisri sepi'o le > dunli selzgana ce le simsa seltra .i sepa'u bo la'o gy Comedy Nation gy pe > la'o gy BBC Two gy de'i (the early-mid 1990s) > Baron Cohen had played an unnamed foreign reporter, with identical looks > and very similar mannerisms, as part of BBC Two's Comedy Nation in the > early-mid 1990s. > > * I'm not sure for {sepi'o} since "looks" and "mannerisms" aren't material. > * I don't know what to do with the mutual referent (x2) of {dunli} and > {simsa}, which is the character {la borat.sagdi,iev}. > * {seltra} doesn't exactly convey the meaning of "mannerism". > * I have no idea how to express "1990s". If BC used the looks and mannerisms to portray the reporter, that's fine, If BC just happens to look like the reporter, I'd say {noi ckaji}. "1990s" is {pasosotu'o}. > .i de'i (the late 1990s) la baron. mo'u favgau le ny la borat. > By the late 1990s he had developed this character into Borat. > > * In spite of the past tense in the English, I didn't use {pu} because it > seemed not necessary. {le ny. la borat} is ungrammatical. You want {ny. la borat}. > .i ri se zvagau fi la'o gy Channel 4 gy de'i 1994 gi'e sevzi skicu lo vo'a > seltivni fo lu le banli snada li'u > (Borat was presented to Channel 4 in 1994,[1] and by late 2000 Borat was, > in his own words, "great success".) > > * I translated the latter "Borat" as {lo vo'a seltivni} since it must be > the title of the tv program and not the character itself. Also I changed > the sentence structure: whereas the English has two "Borat", the Lojban has > one {ri}. {de'i li 1994} or {ca le 1994moi} (I think people can figure out that {nanca} scilicet). {de'i 1994} is expecting a following brivla, and means "at 1994 different ... dates". > .i la'o gy 20th Century Fox gy ba'o te pinka lesedu'u le balvi be le > (popular) skina cu ca'o se pensi > 20th Century Fox has stated that a sequel to the popular movie is currently > being considered.[2][3] > > * Any suggestion for "popular"? > * Lastly, how would you express in Lojban those annotation markers like > [1][2][3]? Something like {misno}, but I'm not sure exactly. If those annotation markers are wikicode for hyperlinks within the page, they should still be hyperlinks in the translation. I'd leave them for now, and translate the footnotes. Pierre