From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 03 19:27:39 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hv2IA-0002nT-W4 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:27:38 -0700 Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.174]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1Hv2I6-0002je-Vh for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:27:34 -0700 Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 78so660912ugn for ; Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:27:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=SVYsOBPbD7ty/2UVXe1GiB7HGK94tdIto3X5OSoCIVtJMgeisgh7cHxAPazt73LqFv5Vu7aUmpe670l6x+rFKAj3IDV6QXjRMry2aw3b6DG/CnQAjze7Ldk5u/Mshw2EatTGVQMfu+bkMzdUZJt4Vb9MPmrRIsV2p7laQiprozs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Wy3O0Ind4YvO6zA1MThGdyK3RdCSUiKVouq7rrkwo2rke0QT2l7JMyImXUnjmW2V6dFMWy8VFh9zeegeFwdRHKxo0PfadZGZiUiDfRB0l5P3bwBFNgTfQYcnopRb7rRNhU3gRlnIx9QopqJJ1Kr//l8FHbrLIeyS3572wKv55Bg= Received: by 10.78.138.14 with SMTP id l14mr1859097hud.1180924044999; Sun, 03 Jun 2007 19:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.78.118.16 with HTTP; Sun, 3 Jun 2007 19:27:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2007 22:27:24 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: mp3 files: can you help? In-Reply-To: <1180908797.46633cfd69599@ssl0.ovh.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1180908797.46633cfd69599@ssl0.ovh.net> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4850 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/3/07, m.kornig@sondal.net wrote: > (2) I'm surprised (and a bit puzzled) by the variety of > accents. Why? Almost all learners understand the pronunciation instructions differently, because Lojban has not had sufficient opportunities to be heard audibly to establish a mutually-reinforcing culture of auditory role-modeling. More importantly, so long as the phonemes are sufficiently different from one another that they won't be confused for other phonemes, accents are unimportant. > (2a) The length of the vowels are very different. > Compare for instance Hans' "mu" (short) on the > one hand and Matt's "mu" (long) on the other. > Hans' "pa" is relatively short, too. > > Are the lengths of the five principal vowels > in numbers meant to be different? Personally, > I speak all vowels relatively long. But I'm > only a starter and that may be wrong... In Lojban, vowel lengths are not meant to be one way or meant to be another. These are unintentional differences of dramatic performance, with no significance. I've asked a friend if his boy and girl would be willing to record these words. Keep in mind that since there do not exist any prepubescent students of Lojban, you are going to have to be content with what you get. > (2b) Some of the speakers seem to pronounce diphthongs. > In particular the female voice's "re", "vo" and > "mu" sound a bit like diphthongs. Is this > acceptable/reasonable for listening examples from > which others would learn pronunciation? Rachel's exposure to Lojban has come entirely from testing and drilling me while I'm driving in the car for the last three years. She doesn't study Lojban herself, and pronounces it with a strong American English accent. > (2c) I'm very surprised by the sound of the vowel "e": > Three different speakers, three different "e"s. > Personally, I pronounce this vowel more like Matt. > > Which pronunciation is "correct"? Both. > Does it really matter? No. > Would it be reasonable to have both Hans' > and Matt's "e" next to each other as "valid" > accents? Yes. -Eppcott