From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Jun 06 06:04:53 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HvvC1-0002vD-4H for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:04:53 -0700 Received: from mclmx.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.10]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HvvBy-0002v2-5A for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:04:52 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx.mail.saic.com id BT-MMP-1874856 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:04:26 -0400 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007060608562317190 for ; Wed, 06 Jun 2007 08:56:23 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:56:24 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7A83A.165B9C59" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: {pi} & {ro} Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:56:24 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7D80@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0706060421g36d3cab8g50e6cd1d60afcb3@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] {pi} & {ro} Thread-Index: AceoOTMUNUp3YQVPRXmG1GMZ4ZI5/QAAG5cw From: "Turniansky, Michael [UNK]" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jun 2007 12:56:24.0437 (UTC) FILETIME=[169DFA50:01C7A83A] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4901 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7A83A.165B9C59 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The mass of" is the translation of "lei" It doesn't mean "all". It refers to what we wouild say in English as "the bread" (bread as a whole concept, if you will) as opposed to a particular loaf or slice of bread. The pino'o is "pi no'o" =3D> "(fraction: typical amount)" as opposed to "piro" (fraction: all). Or did I misunderstand your question? =20 --gejyspa =20 ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2007 7:21 AM To: lojban-beginners Subject: [lojban-beginners] {pi} & {ro} =20 The Book chapter 18: 8.10) mi citka pino'o lei nanba I eat a-typical-amount-of the-mass-of bread.=20 The translation seems to me not correct. Or am I again misreading some principle? "the-mass-of" sounds more like {ro}, as in: 8.8) mi citka piro lei nanba I eat the-whole-of the-mass-of bread and {pi} sounds more like "the-whole-of", as in, in addition to the above one:=20 piso'a PA+PA almost the whole of What distinguishes {ro} and {pi}, according to the Book, is the difference between "elements of totality" and "part of a whole", respectively.=20 mu'o mi'e vid ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7A83A.165B9C59 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  "The mass of" is = the translation of "lei"  It doesn't mean = "all".  It refers to what we wouild say in English as "the bread" (bread as a whole concept, if you will) as opposed to a particular loaf or slice of = bread.  The pino'o is "pi no'o" =3D> "(fraction: typical = amount)" as opposed to "piro" (fraction: all).  Or did I = misunderstand your question?

 

      =          = --gejyspa

 

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org = [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, = 2007 7:21 AM
To: lojban-beginners
Subject: = [lojban-beginners] {pi} & {ro}

 

The Book = chapter 18:

8.10)  mi citka pino'o lei = nanba

I eat a-typical-amount-of the-mass-of bread. =


The translation seems to me not correct. Or am I again misreading some principle?

"the-mass-of" sounds more like {ro}, as = in:

8.8)  mi citka piro lei = nanba

I eat the-whole-of the-mass-of = bread


and {pi} sounds more like "the-whole-of", as in, in addition = to the above one:

piso'a  PA+PA   almost the whole = of


What distinguishes {ro} and {pi}, according to the Book, is the = difference between "elements of totality" and "part of a = whole", respectively.


mu'o mi'e vid

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