From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 12 13:41:41 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HyDBM-0000pr-5i for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:41:40 -0700 Received: from web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([206.190.37.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HyDBI-0000ph-O6 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:41:39 -0700 Received: (qmail 29858 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jun 2007 20:41:29 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-ID; b=3ALtyaA9QiaPU5FxZVqPIanOUhYmbgCS7zGPrryJkDOHdfCMZVXP4QqkEe/RXIo/fu5eL25vkN0fstsR2ZJ94u4VU1jyxjSSonj5Du/iykQ8ORggR/o7eKYeD8rRT5D72KQ/cLuCIz7eTt5IbypmPE5mY4CXKWysdu4tpgZljQc=; X-YMail-OSG: SIGWfaUVM1lWV1mn1PC86q1PuKm5FHOMgGwWBiEi85O5h__6truJuQMe_.z6IUXUuqVRsXNesaeFkLcqKL3JfZwxc9dKfDnCGCDrg6venSv_uTAcekqEoA-- Received: from [74.123.21.51] by web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:41:29 PDT Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:41:29 -0700 (PDT) From: ANDREW PIEKARSKI Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: se gugde? To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Message-ID: <746922.24472.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.9 X-Spam-Score-Int: 19 X-Spam-Bar: + X-archive-position: 4944 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llambías To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:10:03 AM Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: se gugde? On 6/12/07, ANDREW PIEKARSKI wrote: > So could these tanru be now turned into lujvo? Something like > {flaxa'u} for legal resident, and {flaselgu'e} for citizen? Yes, those are valid lujvo. I can understand the difference between {xabju}, the relationship between a person and the place where the person actually lives, and {flaxa'u}, the abstract relationship between a person and the place where some law says they live, which may or may not be where they actually live. But in the case of {selgu'e}, I'm not sure what {flalu} adds: what territory belongs to what country and what person belongs to what country are legal conventions to begin with. mu'o mi'e xorxes Isn't this analogous to a statement like 'Canadians like to skate'? In this statement, there is no implication that only citizens of Canada like to skate. The statement is broad enough to possibly include long-time immigrants who have become, for all intents and purposes, Canadians, but have not gone through the citizenship process. Wouldn't {selgu'e} describe such a Canadian? However, we may need to state that only Canadian citizens can skate on the national team - then {flaselgu'e} would make that clear. mu'o mi'e .andrus.