From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jun 16 10:59:05 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HzcYD-000781-23 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:05 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HzcYA-00077s-8I for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:04 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so1333160wxc for ; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=AJAsyPE+9IKIxtTuD2oeHenLmtJRNdD34UfkIguA4SX0gdULBO6fq355egmrZpnuUXcT/K17dyjlTMbXyzh3k51YZudnZj42KceS4ovpLFeZYqBKdmUlP31wgtUvDVX7sGQwtcsvTOPIG1IRMIbsMkObav8HpN9lKZ9LcasdMO4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=RD3e2CbgESxHHPpCT86emvwnaFhT7axSRIkYSsIH3MiM8vaP1yF5F5L1SKkNmHe9kar4eB8osITvFfEovrPxcR3PCYPKGTE6avytiftzEUMEy7SVplGjDM/GFS9zs4d5VGI1zWPa+6cIHxT2fzzJ+AAlmDw2BYRYf6Lq7lY5wAw= Received: by 10.70.113.15 with SMTP id l15mr6865177wxc.1182016740745; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.65.19 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 10:59:00 -0700 From: "David Cortesi" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] her whom I would be seeing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_31362_20866716.1182016740711" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4977 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: davecortesi@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_31362_20866716.1182016740711 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline OK, continuing with my exploration of Michael Turnianski's translation of a passage by {La.Ja.Jax.Rusox} (is X an ok terminal consonant?). But first a digression: this famous work ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_Jean-Jacques_Rousseau) is calle= d "Confessions" and it occurs to me to wonder: what's Lojban for that? The following gismu seem relevant, stace: x1 is honest/open/frank with x2 about x3 sevzi: x1 is the self/identity skicu: x1 tells about x2... lisri: x1 is a yarn about x2... jbovlaste has sezyskinoi for autobiography, sevzi+skicu+notci (memo/brief message); I don't get the point of notci in that context, but in any case, Rousseau's Confession is anything but brief, and like St. Augustine's, was notable for frankness as well as narrative interest, so {stace je sevzi lisri} might be good... je r=EAvois en marchant =E0 celle que j'allois voir, > walking, I mused on her whom I would be seeing, > .i ca le nu cadzu ku mi pensi ko'a goi le ba se viska be mi > contemporaneous-with the event of walking, I think-about... and here Michael has used the assignable it-1 (refgram 6, part 13) but inverted it, presumably to match the natlangs: he has literally, ...it-1 (ko'a) which-is-assigned-to (goi) the-described future (x1?) thing-seen by me. When I look at the words I get what he's trying to do, but am dubious if th= e actual grammar holds up. What other way is there of saying "=E0 celle que j'allois voir"/"of her that I will see" -- it will be handy to have ko'a defined, as "she" comes up repeatedly in following sentences. ------=_Part_31362_20866716.1182016740711 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline OK, continuing with my exploration of Michael Turnianski's translation = of a passage by {La.Ja.Jax.Rusox} (is X an ok terminal consonant?).

= But first a digression: this famous work ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessions_of_Jean-Jacques_Rousseau) is c= alled "Confessions" and it occurs to me to wonder: what's Loj= ban for that? The following gismu seem relevant,

stace: x1 is honest= /open/frank with x2 about x3
sevzi: x1 is the self/identity
skicu: x1 tells about x2...
lisri:= x1 is a yarn about x2...

jbovlaste has sezyskinoi for autobiography= , sevzi+skicu+notci (memo/brief message); I don't get the point of notc= i in that context, but in any case, Rousseau's Confession is anything b= ut brief, and like St. Augustine's, was notable for frankness as well a= s narrative interest, so {stace je sevzi lisri} might be good...

je r=EAvo= is en marchant =E0 celle que j'allois voir,
   walking, I mused on her whom I would be seeing,
  &nb= sp;  .i ca le nu cadzu ku mi pensi ko'a goi le ba se viska be mi

contemporaneous-with the event of walking, I think-abo= ut...
and here Michael has used the assignable it-1 (refgram 6, part 13)= but inverted it, presumably to match the natlangs: he has literally, ...it= -1 (ko'a) which-is-assigned-to (goi) the-described future (x1?) thing-s= een by me.

When I look at the words I get what he's trying to do, but am d= ubious if the actual grammar holds up. What other way is there of saying &q= uot;=E0 celle que j'allois voir"/"of her that I will see"= ; -- it will be handy to have ko'a defined, as "she" comes up= repeatedly in following sentences.


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