From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 17 11:34:15 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HzzZm-0007wv-Ux for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:15 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.232]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1HzzZk-0007wo-8F for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:14 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t11so1564504wxc for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=gWVwyx7pF4gOIqgufNImQzbO6UyzyC/k1bESS/hHegFXxwIj2k/pG7UX2pemreOaeUt6SOQqJKC6b6m1ieVtwHdSGZvfQHHzC+2K/W4z1PewgQDDUBfXFG7JRAnK1HYmFb918OUogu+wWLUbJHcPbAegyrGhNChNuzTETqLHIFM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=QuCS+OeorMb0N4MI7DzxL7rXo087JDfDO3aNrxhPkpqby24bErKQOYuZY5JJKuLjFr06CWNqC0gujKCf5WjVX3yVywaRk8ExOBPHLCu88LsNLMFxQSfwvr5fbi8sYLrRPJfjUeknOXy5jWZFexiubO991yrQpjiOT1qPpppSjMg= Received: by 10.70.87.5 with SMTP id k5mr8361306wxb.1182105250644; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.9.14 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 11:34:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0706171134qc40df45p44eecf03fbf13149@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 19:34:10 +0100 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: music genres In-Reply-To: <200706170934.24725.phma@phma.optus.nu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_12627_8333613.1182105250618" References: <2f91285f0706161328v15faca72if247ef09ac1be3d4@mail.gmail.com> <200706162152.01355.phma@phma.optus.nu> <2f91285f0706170349x36ebd434vc1013ce044b2319a@mail.gmail.com> <200706170934.24725.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 4996 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_12627_8333613.1182105250618 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 6/17/07, Pierre Abbat wrote: > > "Drum&bass" is a good choice for not using fu'ivla, but "house" is not. {zdani} includes not only human houses, but also bird nests, badger setts, > and beehives (but not bonobo nests, which are {ckana}). If a birdwatcher > unfamiliar with house music hears the term {zdazgi}, he may think of songs > birds sing at home. If {zdazgi} is bad because it can mean either "songs birds sing at home" or "songs people enjoy at club", what about the very {zdani} which can mean either "nest" or "house" or "lair" or "den"? What I have been noticing is that {zdazgi} should be capable of bearing a conceptual framework equivalent to that of {zdani} by which several different ideas (nest, house...) can be meant in a generalized sense but can also be more specific by means of tanru or the context. {zdazgi} may be thought of as a generic term for "music that happens inside zdani", just like {zdani} is for "a structure that let things live within it". Consider the Platonic "form". Words like {zdani} or {stizu} or {danlu}... practically they are literal symbols of respective "forms". And so may {zdazgi} be. And just like such modifications as {le do zdani} and {le la djordj.buc. zdani} is possible, so would {le dikca zdazgi} and {le cipni zdazgi} be possible. After all, if a person unfamiliar with bird nests hears the term {zdani}, she may think of some person's house at first, right? So, it should be ok if somebody thinks of {zdazgi} as, at first, "songs which birds sing at home". And when he hears something like {ba lenu xaufri tu'a le vacysai kei mi'a klama zo'e vi le tcadu tezu'e lenu tirna lei zdazgi gi'e dansu}, it's unlikely that he would mistake {zdazgi} to be songs sung by birds. Vid ------=_Part_12627_8333613.1182105250618 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 6/17/07, Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu> wrote:
"Drum&bass" is a good choice for not using fu'ivla, but "house" is not.
{zdani} includes not only human houses, but also bird nests, badger setts,
and beehives (but not bonobo nests, which are {ckana}). If a birdwatcher
unfamiliar with house music hears the term {zdazgi}, he may think of songs
birds sing at home.

If {zdazgi} is bad because it can mean either "songs birds sing at home" or "songs people enjoy at club", what about the very {zdani} which can mean either " nest" or "house" or "lair" or "den"? What I have been noticing is that {zdazgi} should be capable of bearing a conceptual framework equivalent to that of {zdani} by which several different ideas (nest, house...) can be meant in a generalized sense but can also be more specific by means of tanru or the context. {zdazgi} may be thought of as a generic term for "music that happens inside zdani", just like {zdani} is for "a structure that let things live within it". Consider the Platonic "form". Words like {zdani} or {stizu} or {danlu}... practically they are literal symbols of respective "forms". And so may {zdazgi} be. And just like such modifications as {le do zdani} and {le la djordj.buc. zdani} is possible, so would {le dikca zdazgi} and {le cipni zdazgi} be possible.

After all, if a person unfamiliar with bird nests hears the term {zdani}, she may think of some person's house at first, right? So, it should be ok if somebody thinks of {zdazgi} as, at first, "songs which birds sing at home". And when he hears something like {ba lenu xaufri tu'a le vacysai kei mi'a klama zo'e vi le tcadu tezu'e lenu tirna lei zdazgi gi'e dansu}, it's unlikely that he would mistake {zdazgi} to be songs sung by birds.

Vid

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