From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sun Jun 17 16:32:26 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I04EL-0005lp-Df for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:25 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.241]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I04EI-0005lg-0R for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:24 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so355939ana for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Pi+1tShIV7SfS9mM+Y/kjrSv3Sjj856IAJqO/hlXAQqRudidmMwwYaU/bJ7H9wKFq6SLXNBFiVoZrnpJQamSJ2jsagKM39U/5WUm8+we4ak9GA2o+E7nmCzw/J3XSWD2oaccDRN8sOAfYqkSprqJ3120yYVGC/0MyIBlhcpvvxk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=di3t8GJO4wWGo2At5Rri3Vz0I7R5DR/8eMb2iyVbXkgT3D8uk+C0Ks50sgKJRUsx4ziSfpiQSU1Vy5HPR5YdaIpawWyVWygR4WNmPuYMrvhh07WeNoOQ1zALqnrReeuo4xrmY37SDtbz+lQhIo0pA/iuxS49+OuKr877HC5WOkg= Received: by 10.101.68.18 with SMTP id v18mr3115613ank.1182123140586; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.17 with HTTP; Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560706171632i70d485b4k6a9335a81928ef66@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:32:20 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Dots and spaces (was: Logical connectives) In-Reply-To: <23dc8c770706170259j5884f3a3s7f44a20ca44a10db@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <23dc8c770706170259j5884f3a3s7f44a20ca44a10db@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5001 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 6/17/07, Karl Naylor wrote: > > I've noticed several experienced Lojbanists omit all dots, which > doesn't seem to be discussed in the Reference Grammar or the > beginners' course, but makes sense since the reader knows where they > need to go anyway. Reference Grammar Ch.3, Sect.3: "Technically, the period is an optional reminder to the reader of a mandatory pause that is dictated by the rules of the language; because these rules are unambiguous, a missing period can be inferred from otherwise correct text. Periods are included only as an aid to the reader." > As long as there are spaces before any word with > an initial vowel and after all cmevla (I think), it's unambiguous. Also pauses are required before any cmevla that is not preceded by la, lai, la'i or doi (for example {coi .xorxes} or {mi'e .xorxes} require pauses before the cmevla), after BY cmavo (except in special cases), after the opening ZOI-delimiter and before the closing ZOI-delimiter, and after a finally stressed cmavo that is followed by a brivla. But it is always predictable where they are required, so the dots are not strictly needed for unambiguity. > This raises a point I've been interested by for a while, though: I've > don't remember seeing any discussion at all in the RG or LFB of > spaces. I think the rules are there in the Reference Grammar, at least implicitly, but perhaps they are not clearly summarized in one place. They are simple: 1- Spaces are never allowed in the middle of a word. 2- Spaces are always optional between any two words. 3- If a space is not used where a pause is obligatory, a dot must be used to indicate the pause. 4- If a space is not used right after a brivla, then the stress of that brivla must be marked by some other means (such as capitalization). That's all there is to spaces. (1) and (2) are pretty obvious, and (4) is easy if you know what a brivla is. To know how to apply 3 you need to know where a pause is obligatory in speech, and that's as discussed above, pauses are obligatory: (a) before vowel-initial words, (b) after BY cmavo, (c) before and after cmevla, (d) between ZOI delimiters and foreign text. (e) after a cmavo with final stress and followed by a brivla. mu'o mi'e xorxes