From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 18 06:59:44 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I0HlT-0007vz-3z for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:59:37 -0700 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX1/IFrAUp3+FyTic57viNdL1feYYgTc2aHU=]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I0Hl2-0007vM-Qf for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:59:13 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com id BT-MMP-155598 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:58:59 -0400 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg02.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007061809585817164 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:58:58 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:58:59 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7B1B0.D173EBDD" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Dots and spaces (was: Logical connectives) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:58:58 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7DCC@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0706180642q1a6965d0l99a2bc2a553dd919@mail.gmail.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: Dots and spaces (was: Logical connectives) Thread-Index: AcexrvsG3fqOWEIMTUCBp2gCMG4/VgAACf0w From: "Turniansky, Michael [UNK]" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jun 2007 13:58:59.0318 (UTC) FILETIME=[D1A85960:01C7B1B0] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5011 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7B1B0.D173EBDD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As I say, I garee with the non-separation of .iseri'abo. As for "le mi cukta", while I hear what you are saying, don't forget that it really is a shorthand way of saying "le cukta pe mi". "mi" doesn't really modify cukta in the same way that it would in "le me mi cukta" or "le mi zei cukta", although it doesn't hurt to think of it your way. On the other hand, I wouldn't take out the space between the le's in "le le gerku ku bongu", either (although legally I could). =20 --gy =20 =20 ________________________________ From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 9:43 AM To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Dots and spaces (was: Logical connectives) =20 On 6/18/07, Turniansky, Michael [UNK] wrote: Oddly, although I too prefer ".iseri'abo", I always put a space before NU cmavo. I expect it's because of my English language background, I think of it as "the event-of", rather than "the-event-of". Similarly, I tend to not separate it in phrase like "lemi", "levi", etc. because eI think of them with the single English words "my" and "this", respectively.... I tend to separate "le" from others in a phrase like "le mi cukta" so that the fact that "mi" modifies "cukta" and "le" is the descriptor of "mi cukta" as a whole is clearer: { le | mi cukta } rather than { lemi | cukta }.=20 I prefer ".iseri'abo" to ".i se ri'a bo" since it's semantically a specific version of ".i", altogether mediating two sentences rather than separately being within and constituting one sentence: { mi pu gunka | .iseri'abo | mi ca tatpi } rather than { mi pu gunka | .i | se ri'a bo mi ca tatpi }.=20 mi'e vid ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7B1B0.D173EBDD Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 As I say, I garee with the non-separation of .iseri'abo.  As for "le mi cukta", = while I hear what you are saying, don't forget that it really is a shorthand way = of saying "le cukta pe mi".  "mi" doesn't really = modify cukta in the same way that it would in "le me mi cukta" or = "le mi zei cukta", although it doesn't hurt to think of it your = way.  On the other hand, I wouldn't take out the space between the le's in = "le le gerku ku bongu", either (although legally I = could).

 

      =        --gy

 

 

From: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org = [mailto:lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org] On Behalf Of Vid Sintef
Sent: Monday, June 18, = 2007 9:43 AM
To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org
Subject: = [lojban-beginners] Re: Dots and spaces (was: Logical connectives)

 

On 6/18/07, Turniansky, = Michael [UNK] <MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.c= om> wrote:

  Oddly, although I too prefer = ".iseri'abo", I always put a space before NU cmavo.  I expect it's because of my = English language background, I think of it as "the event-of", rather = than "the-event-of".  Similarly, I tend to not separate it in = phrase like "lemi", "levi", etc. because eI think of them = with the single English words "my" and "this", = respectively….


I tend to separate "le" from others in a phrase like "le = mi cukta" so that the fact that "mi" modifies = "cukta" and "le" is the descriptor of "mi cukta" as a whole is = clearer: { le | mi cukta } rather than { lemi | cukta }.

I prefer ".iseri'abo" to ".i se ri'a bo" since it's semantically a specific version of ".i", altogether mediating = two sentences rather than separately being within and constituting one = sentence: { mi pu gunka | .iseri'abo | mi ca tatpi } rather than { mi pu gunka | .i = | se ri'a bo mi ca tatpi }.

mi'e vid

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