From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jun 18 12:36:13 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I0N1H-0003k2-Cz for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:36:12 -0700 Received: from 25.mail-out.ovh.net ([213.186.37.103]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1I0N19-0003ju-EG for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:36:10 -0700 Received: (qmail 7411 invoked by uid 503); 18 Jun 2007 19:36:22 -0000 Received: (QMFILT: 1.0); 18 Jun 2007 19:36:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail19.ha.ovh.net) (213.186.33.59) by 25.mail-out.ovh.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2007 19:36:22 -0000 Received: from b0.ovh.net (HELO queue-out) (213.186.33.50) by b0.ovh.net with SMTP; 18 Jun 2007 19:35:46 -0000 Received: from 211.101-225-89.dsl.completel.net (211.101-225-89.dsl.completel.net [89.225.101.211]) by ssl0.ovh.net (IMP) with HTTP for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:35:46 +0200 Message-ID: <1182195346.4676de92bf8cb@ssl0.ovh.net> Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:35:46 +0200 From: m.kornig@sondal.net To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: consonant doubling? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.6 X-Originating-IP: 89.225.101.211 X-Spam-Score: 0.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: 6 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5027 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: m.kornig@sondal.net Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Selon Jorge Llambías : > On 6/18/07, m.kornig@sondal.net wrote: > > > > Oh, I knew about voiced-unvoiced clusters. But I > > didn't know about {sc} and {zj}. I can pronounce > > both of them (even stand-alone, i.e. without a > > vowel). Why would you want to exclude these > > sounds? > > I wouldn't want to, but they were excluded by the designers. > > Those are not so bad, because they at least follow some reasonable > rule. I find the exclusion of {mz}, {cx}, {xc}, {kx} and {xk} more arbitrary > and unreasonable. > > > Where can I find a complete list of consonants > > clustes that are prohibited? Or, if the > > list is very long, the complete set of rules for > > consonants clusters? > > It's in the reference grammar, chapter 3, section 6: > Thanks for all that information, Jorge. Especially for the link to the reference grammar ;-) With respect to consonant clusters, Lojban seems to be rather complicated (and somewhat arbitrary). Fortunately, beginners don't really need to know all this. In most cases... I can only think of one thing beginners may want to do and may need "a bigger picture" for: Lojbanizing their own name! This can be quite difficult, I think. Maybe, it's a good idea not to tell beginners that something like Lojbanizing of names exists. Martin