From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jun 26 04:08:11 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1I38u2-0003J0-DN for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:08:10 -0700 Received: from mclmx2.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.32] ident=[U2FsdGVkX191nwnc/nzHu0KPNbyB7JAWdPgM8swX7UE=]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1I38tz-0003Ip-QB for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 04:08:09 -0700 Received: from 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com ([149.8.64.21] [149.8.64.21]) by mclmx2.mail.saic.com id BT-MMP-28850 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:08:01 -0400 Received: from 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com ([10.43.229.18]) by 0015-its-ieg01.mail.saic.com (SMSSMTP 4.0.5.66) with SMTP id M2007062607080131037 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:08:01 -0400 Received: from 0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com ([10.75.0.188]) by 0015-ITS-EXBH01.us.saic.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:08:01 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7B7E2.42E04D01" Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: I'm... My name's... Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 07:08:01 -0400 Message-Id: <1189A858F8918F43BE3F9C7603C73FB4031E7E05@0456-its-exmp01.us.saic.com> In-Reply-To: <497987.85929.qm@web56414.mail.re3.yahoo.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [lojban-beginners] Re: I'm... My name's... Thread-Index: Ace3vXJ4AmyU4MzzQIaQGSv/0jHoygAItMsw From: "Turniansky, Michael [UNK]" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jun 2007 11:08:01.0814 (UTC) FILETIME=[43037360:01C7B7E2] X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5146 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: MICHAEL.A.TURNIANSKY@saic.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7B7E2.42E04D01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nathaniel: > {zo .tim. cmene mi} is the same assertion as {mi'e .tim.}.=20 =20 Careful. While they might refer to the same facts, "mi'e" has a second, very important purpose. It assigns the value of "mi". It's the first-person equivalent of "doi". It says, "This is the one who is talking. From now on, when I say, "mi", that's who it is". =20 > In terms of emphasis, one might suppose that {zo .tim. cmene mi} is closer to "Tim is my name", rather than "I'm Tim". > The word {mi'e} implies the subject {mi}, so it cannot be used to give the names of other people. I'm not completely sure whether {mi'e >.djein. .e .tim.} is correct, but I suspect not, since the equivalent {mi se cmene zo .djein. .e .tim.} (I guess the equivalent could be {mi se > cmene lu .djein. .e .tim. li'u}, which is not grammatically wrong but doesn't mean what you want). You could say "mi'e [lu'o] la djein joi la tim". I'm not sure if the lu'o is necessary or not (it's not from a grammatical standpoint, but I'm not sure how/if the meaning changes with/without it). =20 --gejyspa ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7B7E2.42E04D01 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Nathaniel:=

> = {zo .tim. cmene mi} is the same assertion as {mi'e .tim.}.

=

Careful. While = they might refer to the same facts, "mi'e" has a second, very = important purpose. It assigns the value of "mi". It's the first-person = equivalent of "doi". It says, "This is the one who is = talking. >From now on, when I say, "mi", that's who it = is".

=

> In terms of = emphasis, one might suppose that {zo .tim. cmene mi} is closer to "Tim is my name", rather than "I'm Tim".

> The = word {mi'e} implies the subject {mi}, so it cannot be used to give the names of = other people. I'm not completely sure whether {mi'e >.djein. .e .tim.} is correct, but = I suspect not, since the equivalent {mi se cmene zo .djein. .e .tim.} (I = guess the equivalent could be {mi se

> cmene lu = .djein. .e .tim. li'u}, which is not grammatically wrong but doesn't mean what you = want).

You could say "mi'e = [lu'o] la djein joi la tim". I'm not sure if the lu'o is necessary or not = (it's not from a grammatical standpoint, but I'm not sure how/if the meaning = changes with/without it).

&nbs= p; --gejyspa

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