From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jul 16 12:50:03 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IAWa2-0003pA-Hi for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:50:02 -0700 Received: from an-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.132.240]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IAWZz-0003oy-De for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:50:02 -0700 Received: by an-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id b21so261506ana for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:49:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=tTFsKpIMJDpPvwKSVqOs1ttJrgqRutUuGHpCm6RqAeD7QLJq5x1/CyGzB3gfJ14f7CuvtkC/6BBW82Pt6ofGZBrpCefQwsWe1AA/ckGKjxW060rU5g5V7vlh4l8ooGKS3sl1rrDHHs5++ysII83DkZhlL0dhj4HywKhJ1Cihaiw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=U6WMEO3yT4JT5D3jXtb4mli7FP6Chl7xaeFIfy9yKtmD/9asGLlt5VD7GQD0LZpfCgvnCgJAqmixkUsXNug65ad8K7l64R1JGXN5Mt9IWNulL4JmhI2giJYTI7aIS3K6k2YCyeLAPOrDo1ArkUOElu3W6giaDNjGp9Hed8n6jU8= Received: by 10.100.48.7 with SMTP id v7mr2494906anv.1184615396213; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.17 with HTTP; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560707161249t73efc9c7rc4ea51a2c798a8a7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:49:56 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: double letters In-Reply-To: <003401c7c7de$96173940$0300a8c0@Starlight> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560707140740j4b9c3422s247213f558703a38@mail.gmail.com> <127184.51719.qm@web56406.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <925d17560707160809j7cd27c87ve3506d54831c66f7@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560707160941k5cd69c0bp53cd74a3e313a32d@mail.gmail.com> <003401c7c7de$96173940$0300a8c0@Starlight> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5223 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 7/16/07, Marjorie Scherf wrote: > > When is i or u used as an onset without being proceded by . or ' or > consonant? In my proposal, ' cannot precede semiconsonant i/u, so for example a hypothetical fu'ivla {bro'ia} would not be permitted. ' can only separate two nuclei. ({.} can precede semiconsonant i/u, but realized as a pause rather than as a glottal stop, so I consider it different from the cases of .a, .e, .i, .o., .u, .ai, .au, .ei, .oi, .y. This is not a very important point but it seems to me that it is harder to pronounce a glottal stop in front of a semiconsonant i/u than in front of a vowel.) i/u would be onsets for example in {praia}, {praua}. The reading as {prai,a}, {prau,a} is precluded because it involves two adjacent nuclei. (In practice it is not relevant whether one actually pronounces it as {pra,ia} or as {prai,a}, it's the same word and both are valid ways of pronouncing it, just as you can pronounce {xe,kri} or {xek,ri} and it makes no difference. It only matters in order to tell what's a valid combination and what isn't.) > This might be more consistant (and more correct) if you add .i > and .u as onsets with the other Ci and Cu, and then omit the simple i and u > unless there are examples. That's a possibility. It depends on whether we want to allow fu'ivla such as {smacrkobaiu} for example, which is in jbovlaste. mu'o mi'e xorxes