From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Aug 02 11:55:32 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IGfpa-0006Ve-V7 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:55:31 -0700 Received: from el-out-1112.google.com ([209.85.162.182]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IGfpS-0006VM-7P for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:55:30 -0700 Received: by el-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id j27so99559elf for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=WsC4s6auQ10xx0YNIFVBJ401m2WFYoQsAgsHvenDxZCEq96yJNrOuyToaHQGw2VYvZxBM0RDlOp7LcifeUD3Q3fSNOyzGkTqtjJw3CCEp8WQL8WuA+wQ45A/yDt2C1G6avTItRN9RioFaA0jmQ94sNd0CmkY+8ExjoPYoivhXMk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Ovc7qOLbSV5/8vjxWrLerPmZ5rRXGr2+UXeSzb+9S3ba9jw4QZUZ/6EK4vb7PyHNKl5JxB2Goi152uDWfI2qOVznjX3z/2DUe/+psPHGF/6aTsDfFUrTHI8yrykpjsGJ85uJx/9ffKd7k0Z8wSFKtZVVjSjn2qXXaUFZ+VrXxDo= Received: by 10.100.38.16 with SMTP id l16mr1299405anl.1186080918228; Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.42.17 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560708021155w120db208j6bfc1e6a60d083d2@mail.gmail.com> Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2007 15:55:18 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Propositional vs. predicate was: Firefox Add-on In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0708021124l3e5a53fs52b324da9e0fca48@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <1185834413.46ae65add169c@ssl0.ovh.net> <2f91285f0707310810l32b77e7ao5062ff143cd7c028@mail.gmail.com> <200708020100.03727.phma@phma.optus.nu> <2f91285f0708021124l3e5a53fs52b324da9e0fca48@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5285 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/2/07, Vid Sintef wrote: > I'm not > an expert logican or linguist but I do understand that such > propositional expressions as "A is B" is prevalent in natlangs while > numbered place structures are not. So at least I've been tempted to > think natlangs commonly share the logic of proposition as one of their > basic components. Please fix my bug if any. Expressions such as "A is B" belong to term logic, not propositional logic. In propositional logic the atomic components are complete propositions which are not further decomposed, and the logic deals with the complex propositions obtained by combining the atomic ones by means of logical connectives: p and q, p or q, if p then q, etc. "A is B" in term logic consists of two terms that together form a proposition. Natlangs are not formal logic systems, but propositional logic, term logic and predicate logic are all diffferent formalizations of natlang logic. Lojban is obviously not a purely formal system, but it is an attempt to make the connection with formal predicate logic as transparent as possible. mu'o mi'e xorxes