From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 07 12:39:02 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IIUtR-0000m2-1A for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:39:02 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IIUtL-0000ll-HR for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:39:00 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so427362nfv for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:38:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=A0PfCyoruUAoImAIJ4BI1iK2H6n3b/cgMJJLQ+ETAYV5NLiVWyRvwdU7yEFc6eq/5s9xB4xut88IYg1fmqvZUjqIiuJOGLOg29wFSadkMMTO+a4IsWDd3PSXNLQ1SE5OFeHh+UUK0+6bbXFsF1tZgdV+eTMO+WfZXSsExw8vlN4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ir38r0HPLXg5M3yOOT/PrRknrcDSlH7NHurwRDMywsug0D+FB8yQoYtwpQWOvw0dzf4Ap9Jm60UARjUajVfy+wROWLCcRNLeWw7kbmtDux3hNXVNwaRtilsw0tcKcB4jGerOxYlu5rDevQ/80xxwltf7LlYC+gkxhms4EoHcvq4= Received: by 10.86.100.7 with SMTP id x7mr5420746fgb.1186515532610; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.86.13 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 12:38:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560708071238n2fb2c0a1m48aac33148c0b00e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 16:38:52 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: The Prophet In-Reply-To: <12d58c160708071115k5fb78435m72ae564cbb67593@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0708061616s75cbc972p934abc12312313ef@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708070920h67d9941aq9e4dff05db2771e5@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0708071041q9a3d267jfeeb3d1d4f78f43e@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708071059r576aa4e0oc3e074389458d3ac@mail.gmail.com> <12d58c160708071115k5fb78435m72ae564cbb67593@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5308 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/7/07, komfo,amonan wrote: > > I would argue, without much fervor, that the reason is aesthetic/stylistic. > The original is not written in everyday language, hence, neither should the > translation. If {za'i nonkansa} is preferred over {nu nonkansa}, then for consistency one should also use {za'i cortu} rather than {nu cortu}. One problem is that for some reason people don't like translating English -ness with {nu}, even though it ought to be the normal translation. English has: adjective + -ness/-ity -> noun verb + -ing/-tion -> noun but Lojban doesn't distinguish verbs and adjectives, and {nu} is what normally corresponds in both cases. Neither {za'i} nor {ka} should be the automatic translation of -ness. > OTOH, xorxes's point about za'i/pu'u/zu'o/mu'e is so well-taken > that I wonder whether they could be, erm, excised from the language. I wouldn't miss them, though I would say there are other more malignant cmavo that should be taken care of first. :) > OTOH, > does anyone know if there's a particular language or language family that is > the source or inspiration of those four cmavo? I don't think so, something like this is a more likely origin: mu'o mi'e xorxes