From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 07 14:07:14 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IIWGn-00031a-K1 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:07:14 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.184]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IIWGk-00031S-MF for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:07:13 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so432220nfv for ; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:07:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MC2JhjOX+nsbCAXa/OEXxhN+RbmKoV34IdVHLt1wVd2zIGP2Q6azdvkvBHXTAdQEh871P+a3ZCKijDScRc9ETEiSGsBwalYNaVDozZaeNMm3wJ8Nu2+JAarhEXfjat2b9Ewlrvy3BKnjeGJJEvzkNGbYn9Kw0D+9q6IgLtwVVjU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=HlKfRP1BXqoilpZ2bLU0ASKY4Pu4uMaQ6+FJ4qWoPqoHIubc8rj8IcCvLuCxE0mdUDFZFTG8BGp8Qa5TUel/II2Y65YtzCuXhFOcSYfseMaF8v7T0MXMZPC+iEGGUqIkoE0qEffRffF8hV0bEkRAtFAVsogYNXcZLyiRRpGLZrg= Received: by 10.86.50.8 with SMTP id x8mr5469173fgx.1186520828646; Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.86.13 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:07:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560708071407p56b4f34ao8c64f283ffc138eb@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:07:08 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: The Prophet In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0708071325m26fc5554n471a11dfe9b30ab2@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0708061616s75cbc972p934abc12312313ef@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708070920h67d9941aq9e4dff05db2771e5@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0708071041q9a3d267jfeeb3d1d4f78f43e@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708071059r576aa4e0oc3e074389458d3ac@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0708071325m26fc5554n471a11dfe9b30ab2@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5310 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/7/07, Vid Sintef wrote: > What about the interdefining relation between the NUs and ZAhOs? Such as? > If > the distinction between the four NU cmavo is unimportant, then the > precision in the usage of ZAhOs becomes meaningless, doesn't it? The distinction between different ZAhOs is often crucial. {co'a citka} says something clearly different to {za'o citka}. I'm not saying the distinction between the four NU cmavo is unimportant. What I'm saying is that the choice of cmavo (almost?) never adds anything to the meaning that the sub-bridi already has by itself. Similarly, the difference between male and female is not unimportant, but we don't need a different gadri for {lo mamta} and for {lo patfu}, because the sex difference is already contained in the meanings of {mamta} and {patfu}. We could have grammatical gender marked in the gadri in addition, like many languages do, but we don't. Do za'i/pu'u/zu'o/mu'e ever add anything not already present in the meaning of the bridi that they transform? mu'o mi'e xorxes