From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Fri Aug 10 08:16:33 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IJWE4-0005vM-WD for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:16:33 -0700 Received: from eastrmmtao102.cox.net ([68.230.240.8]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IJWE2-0005v0-SE for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:16:32 -0700 Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070810151625.LVJQ13778.eastrmmtao102.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:16:25 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id aFGN1X00B3y5FKc0000000; Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:16:24 -0400 Message-ID: <46BC81B9.8090002@lojban.org> Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:18:17 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: anti-Zipfian gismu rant References: <46BBDB4D.6020401@lojban.org> <398993.4184.qm@web56403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <925d17560708100554m6232d274ua912df386fd715b7@mail.gmail.com> <46BC6554.7080409@lojban.org> <925d17560708100638n2ed68814q94f8d9c2f4e5ebf1@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560708100638n2ed68814q94f8d9c2f4e5ebf1@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5332 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Jorge Llambías wrote: > On 8/10/07, Robert LeChevalier wrote: > >>At this point someone needs to point out the extensive examples in CLL >>of tanru that are NOT "broda brode"="broda type of brode" > > > If there are any, they are presumably errors, since the place structure > of {broda brode} has to be the place structure of {brode}, doesn't it? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes It is, but they aren't. I am referring to chapter 5 sections 14 and 15. 1. There are other kinds of modification besides "type of" 2. The place structure may be the same, but arguably the semantics may be different. Two examples from the book: kosta degji - coat-finger -> sleeve of a coat and any use of degji to metaphorically indicate a peninsula. It is a finger only as a metaphorical stretch. You may be able to fill in a meaningful place for each of the places of degji, but it is a strain to use this as a tanru. If you make it a lujvo, you can drop the superfluous mention of the shoulder as the place that the sleeve projects from, since it is implicit to the nature of a coat. cifnu-degji - baby finger This is a kind of finger. But it has nothing to do with babies. It is using a metaphorical aspect of a baby as the meaning modifier. lojbab