From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 15 10:38:27 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ILMp8-00051l-Mo for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:38:27 -0700 Received: from eastrmmtao103.cox.net ([68.230.240.9]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1ILMp4-00051K-U5 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:38:25 -0700 Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by eastrmmtao103.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20070815173817.BVBO17424.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:38:17 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id cHeD1X00Q3y5FKc0000000; Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:38:15 -0400 Message-ID: <46C33A64.4080306@lojban.org> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:39:48 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: anti-Zipfian gismu rant References: <46BBDB4D.6020401@lojban.org> <398993.4184.qm@web56403.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <925d17560708100554m6232d274ua912df386fd715b7@mail.gmail.com> <46BC6554.7080409@lojban.org> <925d17560708100638n2ed68814q94f8d9c2f4e5ebf1@mail.gmail.com> <46BC81B9.8090002@lojban.org> <925d17560708100922k6d111266o50236ff063bdc189@mail.gmail.com> <46C2F02C.4000105@lojban.org> <925d17560708150631q439ad77cr939d47c767988ac4@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <925d17560708150631q439ad77cr939d47c767988ac4@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5373 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Jorge Llambías wrote: >>>If not, then >>>tanru has nothing to do with it. Metaphors don't need to be >>>tanru and tanru don't need to be metaphors (the conflation >>>of "tanru" with "metaphor" is another case of Lojbanic mixed-up >>>terminology). >> >>tanru is conflated with one kind of metaphor, what we eventually called >>a "binary metaphor". > > But not all tanru are metaphors. > > There are things that are both tanru and metaphors. > There are things that are tanru but not metaphors. > There are things that are metaphors but not tanru. > There are things that are neither tanru nor metaphors. > > That's similar to "green" and "car": > > There are things that are both car and green. > There are things that are car but not green. > There are things that are green but not car. > There are things that are neither car nor green. > > Using "green" as a keyword for "car", just because there are some green > cars, would be silly. Using "metaphor" or "binary metaphor" as a keyword > for "tanru", just because some tanru can be metaphoric, is about as silly. We needed something distinct from other gismu as a keyword for LogFlash. Originally the keywords were solely about providing support for LogFlash, with the secondary purpose of providing mnemonic aid when possible. > A tanru is simply a type of selbri composed of two (or more) brivla (or other > tanru-units), one modifying the other. I believe that we considered "modification pair" as a keyword. It didn't fly with those that we asked. lojbab