From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Aug 18 14:32:58 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IMVuj-0003Ca-Mj for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:32:58 -0700 Received: from dsl081-066-183.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net ([64.81.66.183] helo=pinfu.digitalkingdom.org ident=Debian-exim) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IMVbi-0001wk-CP for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:13:20 -0700 Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.187]) by pinfu.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1IMPsx-0006It-Hs for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:06:43 -0700 Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id i10so1177587mue for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:10:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ucK8iJYjOKPAInvSidMpSvaJL9G/GYlmNp7wh2vw3uJVWHn7AWTaIAjukDywDpYOs/XS46P8c8bIn3b87YRdRCt/ShzODCUMdeT+Y6dsUaEKfJe90Kd3J7izusf0HC9J3SI4P7YUj3soOFaKHF+2zjBq+6jjKpOTL06VJIcIpZk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=F4hhG/6ZPf4zUWH4397O+07w+BUYRPt3gyNuWQrUjSplNF0MiPc3pe32vjc5qxnBSoGHls1mrb7g4S3dvSLcb0v+qbEx+tD7JdENOJ3cnbou/bi3Ntj+Av8Gu3vfUKA1wRQ0lRoKzXdNM6a0xCcRwgkRXVJff++j2FNEDTg9cdY= Received: by 10.86.68.16 with SMTP id q16mr3025312fga.1187448312087; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.27.19 with HTTP; Sat, 18 Aug 2007 07:45:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560708180745v1f934797q7d039b01ca081da0@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:45:12 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: "technology" In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0708171954y645b186fnc161eb66c169e4a8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0708150455q63589003qf7b714d797466d1a@mail.gmail.com> <20070817205942.GQ12868@digitalkingdom.org> <2f91285f0708171954y645b186fnc161eb66c169e4a8@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.7 X-Spam-Score-Int: 7 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5382 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/17/07, Vid Sintef wrote: > > rutni (or lo rutni) is rather physical, an object that has > already got its material existence and thus can be physically touched. I wouldn't say rutni is restricted to physical objects, I think events can be artificial too. But I would agree it is not equivalent to the main sense of "technology". > On the other hand "technology" is an intermediary mode or channel of > knowledge through which an idea is materialized into some particularly > intended concrete form. I think of "technology" as a systematized set > of principles of "technique" (that's why there is this "-logy" suffix, > isn't it?). It is "technology" through which lo rutni comes into > being. A television, as an artifact, as lo rutni, is not by itself > "technology". A television is a thing which comes into being *through* > "technology". Sometimes though the word "technology" is used to refer to the products of technology. That's a kind of metonymy I suppose. "A piece of technology" is a common way of referring to such things. "Technology" as a body of knowledge would have to be a saske. For example in "they had the technology required to build a ship" we are obviously not talking about a material object, nor even about an artificial event, but about a body of knowledge. I'm not sure how {larcu} would fit there though, I don't think I really understand the definition of {larcu}. What's the difference between the x1 and the x2 of {larcu}? If technology is a saske, as most/all "-logies" are, then perhaps it's a {saske be fi lo nu certu} as opposed to a {saske be fi lo nu cipra}, as are the sciences based on experiment. So how about {creske}? (After all, "technos" is Greek for "skill".) mu'o mi'e xorxes