From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Aug 20 12:08:43 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1INCcE-0007hf-2A for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:08:43 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1INCc9-0007hR-A0 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:08:41 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so646514nfv for ; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:08:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=hmoun9o9P+NrfOwRfROzt7bXK93PMH+DQWIwlg/ue/53GlXvpYmaEDQKm3rpj/V/hBrb7JqHnGjuZiMdBLFmZR7YWI60OJ5/gwY/gOV8f98+7IaStlD2DCOXiEAQgzYSn8RNtR6RfrdTcKZkiVti+dEy/F9tvyVqlGMxYokrw4k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=ocTNYxen2j5LsAsEV+gNoOKXZu+wU0wjH4rGVrCMF7dM4VhAu5WvnbwYwrwhAVw1PJsVwL6wliZhLJREQzgVdoGSCug+XgljCXhHByRB1H6fUbSvWVT1D43BlWAABNS3tnbmrhpZ8H3NpGqj7ELQK9OM7aaVdB4qo1fg6VFzB/8= Received: by 10.86.54.3 with SMTP id c3mr4764062fga.1187636911944; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.27.19 with HTTP; Mon, 20 Aug 2007 12:08:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560708201208m7c433fban4a62b36338b34ccf@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:08:31 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: An interesting sentence In-Reply-To: <46CB9550@webmail.bcpl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <46CB9550@webmail.bcpl.net> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5398 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/20/07, turnip wrote: > Consider the following pairs of sentences: > Veinte nueve serpientes de Under fueron atraídas a mis ropas sucias. > I launder moreso since. > > The Spanish (and correct/forgive me if I have messed it up, Xorxes) means, > "Under's 29 snakes were attracted to my dirty clothes". "Under's 29 snakes" would be "Las veintinueve serpientes de Under", because the English possesive is also always definite. "Veintinueve serpientes de Under" would be "Twenty-nine snakes of Under's". "Mis ropas sucias" suggests that you are wearing them. If you are thinking of a pile of dirty clothes, then "mi ropa sucia" would be more idiomatic, as "ropa" is then normally used as a mass noun. > The meaning of the > second sentence, though, depends on whether it's English or lojban To be grammatical lojban it needs to be {la.under} though. {launder} is a cmevla, and can't follow {.i} directly. > (which is > why I deliberately didn't use English for the first sentence, to avoid bias on > interpreting the second sentence (although I did inherently bias it by using > English-style punctuation and spacing)). But in either case, the second > sentence logically follows the first. u'i mu'o mi'e xorxes