From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Aug 21 09:30:03 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:30:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1INWcE-0003JK-NR for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:30:03 -0700 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.226]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1INWcB-0003Iu-Pw for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:30:02 -0700 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id i27so1505006wxd for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:29:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=MgcTQCAPDHyNKJl9tzUutoMxzK65ZJwgk/ou6KvcoCGnWvx9JQO0cBRGvDliFsX5AB92YTLBnDiIUJYN4UcqQ24FdtffnQNHXkyWazYof1z+EpmMvLpX0qeQ1hVoo90xkKYvetpo+ev5pFAycXsWM5YVvESP4WQXU8UShi3AXlg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=E/pCAscZeMer6v4q+IHGlkrKeeyvhNcUwT++EW21Gc+ytAkEjW1DI40B8LK0Nk+SzF3Ghyx+tMxMTZxdwl6GCAZjde8NJpHg50rS2LNw+w9CzHH0nqiuvSFwgsa7NYzvk8+Z/hnHaaWC9cY/H3qo7ws3DMES14wE+BEAtYtkIeM= Received: by 10.70.52.2 with SMTP id z2mr12938857wxz.1187713792389; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.70.91.19 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Aug 2007 09:29:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2f91285f0708210929j18c4a72fg46e1a41864941b67@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:29:52 +0100 From: "Vid Sintef" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: sevzi kosta In-Reply-To: <925d17560708210845u5d8f6515gdb2d2fb06009f935@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0708210618k69745203yb977d8f68ee05368@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708210743h6a64e059nb3edb866fedc4815@mail.gmail.com> <2f91285f0708210759o7222e3cfyc2dcfc6b78ac00db@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560708210845u5d8f6515gdb2d2fb06009f935@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.1 X-Spam-Score-Int: 1 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5407 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: picos.picos@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 8/21/07, Jorge Llambías wrote: > > How about {le ninmu cu cpacu le sevzi kosta}? > > {sevzi} has no direct connection with {le ninmu}, if that's what you > are asking. Is it perhaps the speaker's coat that is involved? Or the > listener's? My aim is to enrich the implication that {le ninmu} takes/fetches the coat because she has identified it as hers. A motivation. Without explicitly using connectives like {mu'i}. I'm being optimistic about the straightforwardness of the sequence from {le ninmu} to {le sevzi kosta}, between which no other misleading sumti intervenes. Yes, the coat still might be the speaker's or the listener's, but such uncertainty in interpretation is always present over its unspecific counterparts, isn't it? {le ninmu cu cpacu le kosta}... this {le kosta} might belong to either {le ninmu} or the speaker or the listener or anything, mightn't it? (And I think such usage of {sevzi} also has a good point in economizing the occurrence of pro-sumti.)