From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Aug 22 11:28:39 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:28:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1INuwX-0003L9-Fk for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:28:38 -0700 Received: from nf-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.182.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1INuwT-0003L2-T3 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:28:37 -0700 Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 4so169517nfv for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:28:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jNL3kMY/uQ+yFkuHav2XUuTdFKh+AxhTevjK0cw+Xq2hCNlpLf7hwPUKMEmLW5y9BImD0EHfnXVTT37e+HN+d4pQ3EO+b8WgB9rd0lH9q5vTwzzetvVoZyiUxLwBYUaB+tS747o629llKkQrks+Vae13DDxZhPz6fdO4qgwJsxI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=pVm8M2vYks0+SHjHyzHt4B/e0u0JjBAam6sTAwokJW7WogFPHFVbrDOg55feJgk1VrQgOJQc3L4Ry/qFDbScaTtENf3BVl5zymQ6acODO9OjYo97XZShkmkjn2nHD54+d12/qooBonpKHW64u9gPgKSVjqeLXuBfLZMpTvR+r+0= Received: by 10.86.89.4 with SMTP id m4mr680562fgb.1187807310956; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.86.27.19 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:28:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <925d17560708221128u6eddfe86xcd45b089b9991ff8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 15:28:30 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: sevzi kosta In-Reply-To: <46CFADA0@webmail.bcpl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <46CFADA0@webmail.bcpl.net> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5417 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners > >===== Original Message From "Vid Sintef" ===== > > > >Jibun-no fuku-o arau. > > > >self-kind-of clothes-[object] wash. > >le sevzi taxfu cu se lumci Wouldn't the most direct translation be {fe lo vo'a taxfu cu lumci}? According to , "jibun" is a reflexive pronoun, whose antecedent is "the subject of the primary or most prominent action". In Lojban this will often be the x1, so the usual translation of "jibun" will be {vo'a}. > >"jibun" is often used when addressing to many individuals or making a > >generalized statement. "jibun-no fuku" would be a set of clothes which > >one can identify as a part of his/her/its self. Notice also that the > >subject is elided in each expression, the practice of which is again > >quite common in Japanese (and, unlike Spanish or Polish, there is no > >such a system in which verbs or adjectives suggest the case of the > >elided subject). In Lojban the subject need not be expressed either and, like Japanese, there is nothing in the verb that shows person or number. Notice that you can use {vo'a} even when the x1 of the bridi is not explicitly filled, which is similar to "jibun". One difference between "jibun" and {vo'a} is that "jibun" is only used for animate subjects, whereas {vo'a} can be used for any x1. mu'o mi'e xorxes