From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Oct 20 15:30:50 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IjMqI-00040y-J5 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:30:50 -0700 Received: from eastrmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.240.47]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IjMqG-00040g-GM for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:30:50 -0700 Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20071020223042.RHCV24782.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:30:42 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id 2mWZ1Y00L3y5FKc0000000; Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:30:40 -0400 Message-ID: <471A8187.6060409@lojban.org> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 18:30:31 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: some questions References: <2204fa080710200633i681486e4l234f44613140eb5e@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5511 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Matt Arnold wrote: > On 10/20/07, Jared Angell wrote: >>Also...isn't keeping track of the place structures for every single word is >>Lojban damn near impossible???? > > Difficult perhaps, for some. But it has been proven to be possible. > Most gismu follow a predictable place-structure pattern so they don't > have to all be memorized. I also think that people approach learning the place structures as a memorization task, and that is extremely unnatural from a language learning point of view. Isn't keeping track of the place structures for every single word is English damn near impossible???? When you learned English, as a child, you learned all the place structures of English, despite their irregularities. By that, I mean that you learned for each verb what sort of thing goes in the subject, which verbs take direct objects and indirect objects, and what sorts of objects are permissible in each. You also learned for each verb what prepositional phrases make sense with that verb, and what the meaning of those prepositional phrases are in that context. People don't notice the ambiguity of English prepositions, but look at some examples - you learned which to use where. As a child, and without really thinking about it. by the way walked by the bookstore by the time I get to Phoenix read it in the newspaper read it in the bookstore looked in the mirror barrel of monkeys friend of mine gallon of gas lojbab