From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Oct 23 07:53:47 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkL8W-0005VJ-3V for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:47 -0700 Received: from wr-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.184.232]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkL8S-0005Uz-Ju for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:39 -0700 Received: by wr-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id 36so1071666wra for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:53:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=/ZwI+Nj1cUjLq/AyPa2zKhQY0dhysxNWtw7fpBLcs8g=; b=QsquV2+ogieiGEael4lgQINWuT7zxucyutUChdiDDzMyyXYHmkPe4FbE0aPV/v/lZssr63X+WGbohWKxHYyvSLCKhkbk2ASNZRxGcTa8z3JEd9s500QzmNSgeKdgaRm6H0/5dOQqWKVC8OdDSFNEaWfpw5ZekJrOQXQALotl+2o= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=nFxDsZQX0NtvWPsLBhz5VowryN4LPRdo1OmycrjJAfuKsof2Tq2yj1KSjVj4H6oJjzACt46mmrchFMomjmYCY1CS3Ib1F2GjVLm1axr+wzmVwggr1xqjjsPSi1D9boxiBZNJ6RxPC/3AuamlefwIWPsNkz7/99Q2zmc6+ghPEdg= Received: by 10.142.185.13 with SMTP id i13mr1925979wff.1193150827867; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.80.10 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:47:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5e124660710230747q6dcb1da8y4e3fca5c10e4952f@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 16:47:07 +0200 From: "Wim Coenen" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors In-Reply-To: <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1677_11304856.1193150827853" References: <6ee9d0ca0710222351q7547a487q41a4e89b31ab2f30@mail.gmail.com> <200710230703.04940.phma@phma.optus.nu> <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5543 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: wcoenen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_1677_11304856.1193150827853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2007/10/23, John Daigle : > > In re: 'cilre cpare' > > If x1 is "learning-crawling" does this imply that x1 is both learning and > crawling, with an emphasis on crawling? Could this translate as "practicing > crawling"? Or is this tandu just meaningless? > > The place structure of "cilre cpare" is that of the last gismu, "cpare". "cilre" modifies the meaning of "cpare", but lojban does not specify how. "mi cilre cpare" may mean: "I (am learning to) crawl" But It could also be interpreted as: "I crawl (as a demonstration, to teach crawling)". It is safer to avoid tanru if you don't want to be ambiguous. This is why Pierre rewrote your example as "la kan,r. cilre fi lo nu cpare". mu'o mi'e .uim ------=_Part_1677_11304856.1193150827853 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline 2007/10/23, John Daigle <johnpdaigle@gmail.com>:
In re: 'cilre cpare'

If x1 is "learning-crawling" does this imply that x1 is both learning and crawling, with an emphasis on crawling? Could this translate as  "practicing crawling"? Or is this tandu just meaningless?


The place structure of "cilre cpare" is that of the last gismu, "cpare". "cilre" modifies the meaning of "cpare", but lojban does not specify how. "mi cilre cpare" may mean:
"I (am learning to) crawl"

But It could also be interpreted as:
"I crawl (as a demonstration, to teach crawling)".

It is safer to avoid tanru if you don't want to be ambiguous. This is why Pierre rewrote your example as " la kan,r. cilre fi lo nu cpare".

mu'o mi'e .uim


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