From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Oct 23 15:19:54 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkS6L-0006ol-EF for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:53 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.191]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkS6J-0006oO-2k for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:53 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so1495738rvf for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=WMWWuq83VaRpcoaw8rNEVpdXg51D+U7mLpWjjuj/BdM=; b=nJd7zwv/FnxwuQZzBcvcZaDtw2yC6xe5w6WFCX1lVzu997Ojy3lkddEOO85RShP1cywhTuJwdJrbj/I6ZxQJ144UesiXOKtGRZES2qToJcJ2kK6b6Csxr70XFJsKKXq6Y5q/q+KPIazsH8q/XPAszrKVlocLrQ2j+jPZBC1nFaY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=kwVD/bBWIzoFAM7I0lsIhaFpzNYWO2+2S6gwHUp/JxqMWwRpvGIBWpw3sewzOMLF9Na/DRhx/1SEBw2mX+5X9ikr87qZE2WWLXdcyl1cGvqofioLW42jYPxRvQ2rIbDej9KAKg7ZgCMTNQA5iWU5pi5/Du1AHLlWAAYNUmrMLfY= Received: by 10.141.87.13 with SMTP id p13mr3450018rvl.1193177989778; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.123.14 with HTTP; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97f5058c0710231519y4edad174nd1d638ef2d177634@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 06:19:49 +0800 From: Penguino To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors In-Reply-To: <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1964_10411733.1193177989800" References: <6ee9d0ca0710222351q7547a487q41a4e89b31ab2f30@mail.gmail.com> <200710230703.04940.phma@phma.optus.nu> <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> <5e124660710230747q6dcb1da8y4e3fca5c10e4952f@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231028y4e96cb86s6417bad09115c5cd@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231049k120b01a5o7dbbe705522431f2@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231113n4e2889adl8700f7e124a5c095@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5551 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: spheniscine@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_1964_10411733.1193177989800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline .ua ki'e mi ca djuno ledu'u terfrica zo cilre zo crebi'o On 10/24/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > On 10/23/07, John Daigle wrote: > > > > la kan,r cilre fe le zu'o cpare le loldi > > > > It parses on the translator as "Name is/does learning the activity of > > climbing the floors". That seems closer to what I want, but it seems > like > > people are avoiding this usage. May I ask what is wrong with it? > > {djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 about > some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning > how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning > how to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning > facts about it. > > For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi'o}: > > la kanr certu lo nu cpare lo loldi > Connor is adept at crawling on the floor. > Connor knows how to crawl on the floor. > > la kanr crebi'o lo nu cpare lo loldi > Connor becomes adept at crawling on the floor. > Connor learns how to crawl on the floor. > > > Finally, does my use of binxo make sense to use instead, to indicate th= e > > internal transformation from one who is unable to crawl to one who is > able > > to crawl? > > Yes, {la kanr binxo lo cpare be lo loldi} says "Connor becomes a > floor-crawler". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > ------=_Part_1964_10411733.1193177989800 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline .ua ki'e mi ca djuno ledu'u terfrica zo cilre zo crebi'o
On 10/24/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambi= as@gmail.com > wrote:
On 10/23/07, John Daigle <= johnpdaigle@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> la kan,r cilre fe le zu'o cpare le lold= i
>
> It parses on the translator as "Name is/does learnin= g the activity of
> climbing the floors". That seems closer to w= hat I want, but it seems like
> people are avoiding this usage. May I ask what is wrong with it?
{djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 abou= t
some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning
how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learninghow to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning
fa= cts about it.

For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi&#= 39;o}:

  la kanr certu lo nu cpare lo loldi
  Conno= r is adept at crawling on the floor.
  Connor knows how to cra= wl on the floor.

  la kanr crebi'o lo nu cpare lo lold= i
  Connor becomes adept at crawling on the floor.
  Connor learns how to crawl on the floor.

> Finall= y, does my use of binxo make sense to use instead, to indicate the
> = internal transformation from one who is unable to crawl to one who is able<= br>> to crawl?

Yes, {la kanr binxo lo cpare be lo loldi} says "Connor becomes= a floor-crawler".

mu'o mi'e xorxes




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