From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 24 01:25:57 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkbYb-00009G-Hr for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:25:52 -0700 Received: from nz-out-0506.google.com ([64.233.162.230]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkbYB-00006l-EL for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:25:36 -0700 Received: by nz-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s18so137272nze for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:24:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=Tqoxmv+tObPrk6MkypAO7p051lWTB6xdlmls+3JEfpg=; b=F1/mAJYwTqQFxLcetBgDqKohvM/h95PQZ+F+gww3i/Jhavcn7s6zMa9jpAp7pP6oAxcdLzo0d+9SsryYLoWz5mepjueQbBtKrAyPsq8Lg5gSyKHCaDgmIjTMPSy1OAjIgw1wbCpVJ1fRZ8PgjlRL4OCB+aPBFQaMQ2GeARCgjEQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=TX0GdbP96QQIjiQ+ZpjlnsM9lQYl1WE+K80girMdRebo+UF5BgueI4jaxRGq+/jfAc+GrMhFi5GMmfFOwSY/uuFLdKCNDuTsUXMAmnHOqnGpSMQxfPVExTPba4vEbuNEUdwDUyszSdCeJ4TdAFaid7Z6Kztqs52X9BoWTM1+wIA= Received: by 10.64.76.15 with SMTP id y15mr802744qba.1193214295297; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.156.11 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:24:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <71550650710240124m111eb71ftff3fa65670e87fc8@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:24:55 +0200 From: "Yoav Nir" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors In-Reply-To: <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4954_70943.1193214295189" References: <6ee9d0ca0710222351q7547a487q41a4e89b31ab2f30@mail.gmail.com> <200710230703.04940.phma@phma.optus.nu> <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> <5e124660710230747q6dcb1da8y4e3fca5c10e4952f@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231028y4e96cb86s6417bad09115c5cd@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231049k120b01a5o7dbbe705522431f2@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231113n4e2889adl8700f7e124a5c095@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5557 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: yoav.nir@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_4954_70943.1193214295189 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Isn't {crebi'o} optimistic? Doesn't it asuume that Connor will become proficient in crawling? Besides, I thought that learning how to is also cilre, because that's the word used in the title of L4B. Surely lojban is not a fact, but rather something you learn how to do. Should I say {mi crebi'o la lojban} rather than {mi cilre [fi] la lojban} ? On 10/23/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > {djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 about > some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning > how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning > how to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning > facts about it. > > For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi'o}: > > ------=_Part_4954_70943.1193214295189 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Isn't {crebi'o} optimistic?  Doesn't it asuume that Connor= will become proficient in crawling?

Besides, I thought that learning how to is also cilre, beca= use that's the word used in the title of L4B.  Surely lojban is no= t a fact, but rather something you learn how to do.  Should I say {mi = crebi'o la lojban} rather than {mi cilre [fi] la lojban} ?

On 10/23/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas <j= jllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
{djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 about
s= ome subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning
how= to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning
how to= do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning
facts about it.

For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{c= rebi'o}:

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