From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 24 04:35:13 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkeW0-000092-4b for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:35:13 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.187]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IkeVx-00008b-8l for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:35:11 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so128902rvf for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:35:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=6PUv86z8OtBiXJIHjtvp4YSOURrkIU8MXlPkqgsMl7Q=; b=LqdRS58OZ1i/rkQqyJ82BhTZSamwWk+VgfeED5uBqg4G+x1u/7Ir01LF0qgaetNoTCqxYUPOSH0te1zS8YKvGeT1g2G2aa/iWYluBMwMRFwgmXsgQPjU8l/XerX2s5mepeWnBHkq4MGKtAWm/9iFoRra0m7gvaq1DfdQvD7wxCw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=fWEnYUOLfV1t8T3Ng9erPCJNvlE4PlB08NJKVExiDtOTT47o2oL8jXlvMuzQesIy88HLEoiQtBTXjELTF0SO0dKG+Ah3W6AyA6JDb/8GZyQWCSV8dAqJDK8F0oV9Q3E+fVDjNEy74b2GWv/5ZaK+o9c1hUgEoz8fxw8LTn40nMY= Received: by 10.141.172.6 with SMTP id z6mr204948rvo.1193225708033; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.123.14 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 04:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <97f5058c0710240435s390068d3q737f3754f09dd9a7@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:35:07 +0800 From: Penguino To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: learning to climb on floors In-Reply-To: <71550650710240124m111eb71ftff3fa65670e87fc8@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2881_14193821.1193225708015" References: <6ee9d0ca0710222351q7547a487q41a4e89b31ab2f30@mail.gmail.com> <200710230703.04940.phma@phma.optus.nu> <6ee9d0ca0710230707q775f2d89o8a33afd586c69b56@mail.gmail.com> <5e124660710230747q6dcb1da8y4e3fca5c10e4952f@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231028y4e96cb86s6417bad09115c5cd@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710231049k120b01a5o7dbbe705522431f2@mail.gmail.com> <6ee9d0ca0710231113n4e2889adl8700f7e124a5c095@mail.gmail.com> <925d17560710231204u8176ab2v3637e3d267ccae41@mail.gmail.com> <71550650710240124m111eb71ftff3fa65670e87fc8@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5558 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: spheniscine@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_2881_14193821.1193225708015 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hmm... perhaps x3 of cilre can be roughly stated as the subject you "learn about"? Thus you "learn about" Lojban, but Connor doesn't "learn about" crawling? On 10/24/07, Yoav Nir wrote: > > Isn't {crebi'o} optimistic? Doesn't it asuume that Connor will become > proficient in crawling? > Besides, I thought that learning how to is also cilre, because that's the > word used in the title of L4B. Surely lojban is not a fact, but rather > something you learn how to do. Should I say {mi crebi'o la lojban} rathe= r > than {mi cilre [fi] la lojban} ? > > On 10/23/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > > > > {djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 about > > some subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning > > how to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning > > how to do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning > > facts about it. > > > > For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{crebi'o}: > > > > ------=_Part_2881_14193821.1193225708015 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hmm... perhaps x3 of cilre can b= e roughly stated as the subject you "learn about"? Thus you "= ;learn about" Lojban, but Connor doesn't "learn about" c= rawling?

On 10/24/07, Yoav Nir <yoav.nir@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Isn't {crebi'o} optimistic?  Doesn't it asuume that Connor= will become proficient in crawling?

Besides, I thought = that learning how to is also cilre, because that's the word used in the= title of L4B.  Surely lojban is not a fact, but rather something you = learn how to do.  Should I say {mi crebi'o la lojban} rather than = {mi cilre [fi] la lojban} ?

On 10/23/07, Jorge Llamb=EDas < jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
{djuno} and {cilre} are defined as knowing/learning some fact x2 about
s= ome subject x3. They are not really appropriate for knowing/learning
how= to _do_ something. Not even in the x3, since knowing or learning
how to= do something is not at all the same thing as knowing/learning
facts about it.

For knowing/learning how, one can use {certu}/{c= rebi'o}:


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