From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Oct 24 07:59:55 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ikhi6-0004ky-Nv for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:59:55 -0700 Received: from rn-out-0910.google.com ([64.233.170.185] helo=rn-out-0102.google.com) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ikhi4-0004kr-Mu for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:59:54 -0700 Received: by rn-out-0102.google.com with SMTP id s46so129435rnb for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:59:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=bvZwlh4J7J12EaJFPqluIaM2IHGZzml7k5tO7/JxYdI=; b=siEG83L5rctkE1qZE8BawhWIC8iIPV2QxOqXN8e4jReZVCSXOXIjplA+DnK8+1QVb4jbBDWcPrbO4ZJwOCnSZjl0MBl02CieLYIRGG18zJWlanPCPoyM1KZBfMBDh2sOc0KpJ9ARWH/EOvh5EfTAcgvYp5/WvaRx7JrqfAODC1k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=Jnnw2Hgr+kx31rfw+vnqNqLAvabKQwKtvleRpC9tUvQCvO2Hpz2vNjs3BIksRbR3YSTdMxswbAFM87LlueNAZtGHjVHVk2rL69Uya/sniPfObt7XQaep7H5kxC6w58oj04/MhwSaHpZdvbKWnsOa3j0U0JAk2U7+zMoAFwVhwLM= Received: by 10.142.141.5 with SMTP id o5mr157304wfd.1193237990194; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.142.153.4 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Oct 2007 07:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <12d58c160710240759v35ee7c25y97548430c8f8ba42@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:59:50 -0400 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: usefulness In-Reply-To: <2204fa080710240614t4b9c184erd7d3acf2ac03ddb5@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_6206_31622733.1193237990184" References: <2204fa080710240614t4b9c184erd7d3acf2ac03ddb5@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2881a53eb755c97b X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5567 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_6206_31622733.1193237990184 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/24/07, Jared Angell wrote: > > I have heard it argued that the reason that there are so few texts yet > translated into Lojban is that it is so 'other-worldly'. I think this > is a terribly crafted excuse for a language with such a small and > totally voluntary user-base that it is incapable of getting reading > materials produced or translated. Without reading material this > language is nothing. Things are not not getting translated into > Lojban because of the difficulty level. Things are not getting > translated into Lojban because the only people who are just fluent > enough to translate them do not have the time because they are not > being compensated for it. If people were in a Lojban community where > Lojban culture could develop and children grew up speaking Lojban (it > would be Utopia probably) then translating things and writing things > in Lojban would be as trivial as it was to translate thing from a > multiplicity of languages into Modern Hebrew when the state of Israel > was founded. IMHO there are at least two important obstacles to rapid growth Right Now in Lojban's audience: 1) the still-relatively-meager vocabulary and 2) the ongoing BPFK work. Progress is certainly being made in the latter, and probably on the former as well (it should probably be my next project). Until BPFK is done and until we can push vocabulary up to n words (don't ask me what n is), I believe it's better for now that people come to Lojban, rather than that we actively seek learners. That way, you're more likely to get the sort of person who is enthusiastic and can contribute to finishing the language. On the contrary, if you cast a wide net with the unfinished language, I fear many people would be turned off by the fact that we haven't agreed on how to say 'the' yet. Also, I don't know what the hurry is. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_6206_31622733.1193237990184 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On 10/24/07, Jared Angell <angell.jared@gmail.com> wrote:
I have heard it argued that the reason that there are so few texts yet
translated into Lojban is that it is so 'other-worldly'.  I think this
is a terribly crafted excuse for a language with such a small and
totally voluntary user-base that it is incapable of getting reading
materials produced or translated.  Without reading material this
language is nothing.  Things are not not getting translated into
Lojban because of the difficulty level.  Things are not getting
translated into Lojban because the only people who are just fluent
enough to translate them do not have the time because they are not
being compensated for it.  If people were in a Lojban community where
Lojban culture could develop and children grew up speaking Lojban (it
would be Utopia probably) then translating things and writing things
in Lojban would be as trivial as it was to translate thing from a
multiplicity of languages into Modern Hebrew when the state of Israel
was founded.

IMHO there are at least two important obstacles to rapid growth Right Now in Lojban's audience: 1) the still-relatively-meager vocabulary and 2) the ongoing BPFK work. Progress is certainly being made in the latter, and probably on the former as well (it should probably be my next project). Until BPFK is done and until we can push vocabulary up to n words (don't ask me what n is), I believe it's better for now that people come to Lojban, rather than that we actively seek learners. That way, you're more likely to get the sort of person who is enthusiastic and can contribute to finishing the language. On the contrary, if you cast a wide net with the unfinished language, I fear many people would be turned off by the fact that we haven't agreed on how to say 'the' yet. Also, I don't know what the hurry is. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan
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