From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Oct 25 07:00:18 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Il3Fx-0003ai-LC for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:18 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Il3Fp-0003ZW-Ph for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:12 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so447198rvf for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=Rw2sC/+o1mD3Z6kYqb0kRm9yvs6UxsgYaT4Yg6+lraU=; b=IW+SDIUcgIXNHE7tiWf6Vj07TYrnURKG6SHt/ctRj6DGmQ1qwbO+o7WPD6CIXc0nLGaTfSRY4AE+7wWJI6KyDPM27Exp+DE03h/9fMi1Xceu4h/qy/14hQItyXOqPRPSfWR5o0MGLdDns7GGZviPsYqxKdF4yWNVmNlIqpPuUNg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=DeOoSsWCYg8JM6ww0ojaWE5PcIXObk8tLWFRrm9QmwP8LWMUGEZ2UMkLZ4awRC2kOt38QiB6b24mBZxh1pvqCApz+iDbRWqv6K95Ixbn8t/5xNSM5AmYh7hrSKltdqXel+QG9sW0HLcnrK3pMBJJZETG9lUGwtSRjRXSiWeMjBQ= Received: by 10.140.132.8 with SMTP id f8mr917423rvd.1193320808298; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.141.45.19 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Oct 2007 07:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 10:00:08 -0400 From: "Matt Arnold" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: usefulness In-Reply-To: <38c99b470710242111r7eb3ddc4gf682541eac1adeef@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <2204fa080710240614t4b9c184erd7d3acf2ac03ddb5@mail.gmail.com> <471F5CBC.4070501@lojban.org> <71550650710241426j30ddeed5lc2fe19a09a283efc@mail.gmail.com> <702226df0710241841r3ac21a3hc2344f7d664db070@mail.gmail.com> <38c99b470710242111r7eb3ddc4gf682541eac1adeef@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5612 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: matt.mattarn@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On 10/25/07, Carlos Gabriel Quiroz wrote: > Hello, everyone. > > *cough cough* (throat cleared) > > So, Iīm new to the language, found out about it three months ago, Iīve only > posted once or twice in this group, I read almost none of the mails anyone > sends, and know about 10 words in Lojban. > > That said, I plan to learn Lojban as much as I can, as deep as I can, simply > because Iīm curious about if it lives up to the usefulness it seems to have > and because if it does, than Iīd like to teach it to others so we can share > its benefits. > > Jared, I applaud your initiative to express your concerns and wishes. Though > not perfect, it is quite admirable that you did, since you express your > perspective and in turn other members of the community can share their own > perspectives and experience back. Now, I gotta say that after reading the > reply emails I am quite happy about the amount of intelligent internet users > here, which is no coincidence. I just might read the group emails more > often. My favorite reply was Robertīs (I have no idea who you are, I guess > Iīll eventually google your background check), since it was sound and you > throw back counter-arguments the same way I do: breaking everything down and > commenting one by one, no matter how long it takes. Smart, clean, to the > point. Iīm glad people like you are behind Lojban and contribute to this > group. Iīm happier knowing that people like you are still around. > > > Jared, all I gotta say is, use Lojban as you please. There is no one > "definite" way to how any language should grow. It is neither urgent or > useful to translate texts right now. Lojban-ists donīt have to get > "authority recognition" or acknowledgment from any mainstream community to > fulfill its destiny. Why? Because it doesnīt have one. A language is just a > language. People like it, they use it. People wanna speak it with other > people, they teach it. It is ok if it is used only for jokes, there is no > shame or dishonor in it. Lojban doesnīt have to serve a "higher" purpose. It > doesnīt have to be spoken by millions. It doesnīt have to be ( fill in the > blank). Lojban does not have to be a crusade. Donīt fret over Lojban dieing, > keep doing what you are doing (speaking your mind, doing what you can to > keep Lojban alive), but thereīs no point in panicking. If after all has been > done, all has been tried, one day there are no speakers alive... well... at > least weīll have done our best. Quite frankly... I donīt think there will be > a funeral. I think Lojban will stay alive, even if only by a small > community. And thatīs ok. I can live with that. And so can Lojban. > > And, in case anyone cares, once I learn enough Lojban, I expect to > definitely love it enough to teach it to others. And when that happens, I > will do my share in teaching it to as many people I can get interested. > > BTW, if anyone has any good studying material, please be so kind to share > with me. > > > > -- > Carlos Gabriel Quiroz Sánchez > Tel: (+52) (81) 83-00-36-24 > Cel: 044-81-12-75-9069 > MSN: quirozom@gmail.com > > "Love, Truth, Hope, Justice, Determination, Peace, Honor, and Trust. > Ideals and principles which I have resolved to live by the rest of my life." > Carlos Gabriel > > "We canīt solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we > created them." > Albert Einstein Thank you, Carlos, for your sensible and productive statements. Thank you also for joining the mailing list. Thanks most of all for starting down the path of Lojban. -Eppcott P.S. In response to your statement that you don't know who Robert is: Bob and his wife created and founded Lojban.