From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Oct 27 09:29:41 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IloXd-0006vD-2N for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:29:41 -0700 Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.185]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1IloXa-0006v2-L2 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:29:40 -0700 Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 19so2071678fkr for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:29:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; bh=3EzVuMQJ3ULTU6WWQVsY7KvdGvtkD5fInC6dEiI32c0=; b=EZF8vZ82MvDjIxHUMYG7LEFrEudt5epfoEnz7pzFmRqphWesPpkKmT/U1wryt+S5v4KrWWB0i4O46vTKSbuIJCJjFQsWDz+rMOLWtAk0KDYDyoRrg4EG9cmrYefZLA0NBCrv7tjqIMlSBbm1kna/+i/NIdSf60StdCX8uaXF/Xg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references; b=qS9DvBpBGeHKE6ynnRjMvPxKyFVLkywsxaDV/tbQaW9L74YmrPIKU5vGopDzl7uNE1BXk3LxS/0vkiXCgd4EWR0B7G85wR/qYrM4JHYOKDf/g5po6p+EJuuEVoqff7Mk8R7WtpApCS2wdN/8mQKsukjXZyLS5XC+oFqzBRG+dik= Received: by 10.82.126.5 with SMTP id y5mr8280957buc.1193502577036; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:29:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.113.2 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:29:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <2204fa080710270929i43389ecdr7a6e5980000401b9@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 11:29:36 -0500 From: "Jared Angell" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: geodesic dome In-Reply-To: <5D1630DA-C32D-453D-B7A5-E3F3AE2AAF80@umich.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_11181_1727254.1193502577020" References: <821531.97363.qm@web27709.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <975a94850710261310y7e2586d4p60cc69af7881a9f8@mail.gmail.com> <2204fa080710261503ue4df8cbnab58026306087816@mail.gmail.com> <200710261832.41499.phma@phma.optus.nu> <2204fa080710261540kc3ccbf0w941a16f0cfd78ca@mail.gmail.com> <97f5058c0710261625md4f9d8dm60457d1351b2f025@mail.gmail.com> <2204fa080710270543t3c1c50e8je8b3064b9e9606b2@mail.gmail.com> <5D1630DA-C32D-453D-B7A5-E3F3AE2AAF80@umich.edu> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 5711 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: angell.jared@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_11181_1727254.1193502577020 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm quickly discovering that the Lojban community is a group of people that don't take the language more seriously really than as a intellectual game which my level is apparently zero in and therefore I don't have a right to discuss the weaknesses and problems of the game that could be worked on. My present inability to speak Lojban doesn't make it impossible for me to notice weaknesses as this exercise with a geodesic dome has demonstrated. And the point of the demonstration I am about to make in a moment with a different topic name. On 10/27/07, Alex Martini wrote: > > On Oct 27, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Jared Angell wrote: > > Forgive me if before I learn a language I want to test the waters to make > sure that it is speakable. > > On 10/26/07, Penguino < spheniscine@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Seriously Jared, could you please lose some of that attitude? You have > > barely learned the language, and yet you come in barging with all these > > opinions about it, lunging at those who are trying to help you just because > > they couldn't come up with a word for "geodesic dome" within 24 hours. I bet > > similar problems also exist for languages that don't freely use borrowings, > > e.g. Chinese; only that Chinese has a lot more characters than Lojban > > has gismu. At least there exist systems in Lojban where borrowings can be > > used if you need a word now. > > > > > doi dajred > > I don't think anyone has issues with you wanting to learn a bit about > Lojban before you spend time learning it. > > However, I do find your tone itself a bit inappropriate. As a very early > beginner, you know very little about the language. I myself know not so much > about the language. So it only makes sense that we ask our questions > *nicely* to show respect for those who know the answer. Making bold > pronouncements about how the language ought to have been is rather out of > line until you understand how it *is*. > > Lojban really hasn't changed much since the early days it was created > anyhow, so change isn't terribly likely. If you decide you like Lojban, > decide to like it as it is. If you want to see it grow, learn it. Teach it. > Get pretty good, and volunteer to help with byfy work on the baseline. Once > all of that gets done, and a dictionary gets published, then people might > consider changes. But as far as I remember, the language has been frozen > until then. > > Tthat said, I hope you stick around and keep learning Lojban. > > mu'o mi'e .aleks. > -- Jared "There is no emotion, there is peace; there is no ignorance, there is knowledge; there is no passion, there is serenity; there is no death, there is the Universe" "Work smart when you can and hard if you must" "When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat" "Open Source: The light side of computing. It's never too late to join" ------=_Part_11181_1727254.1193502577020 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline I'm quickly discovering that the Lojban community is a group of people that don't take the language more seriously really than as a intellectual game which my level is apparently zero in and therefore I don't have a right to discuss the weaknesses and problems of the game that could be worked on.  My present inability to speak Lojban doesn't make it impossible for me to notice weaknesses as this exercise with a geodesic dome has demonstrated.

And the point of the demonstration I am about to make in a moment with a different topic name.

On 10/27/07, Alex Martini < alexjm@umich.edu> wrote:
On Oct 27, 2007, at 8:43 AM, Jared Angell wrote:
Forgive me if before I learn a language I want to test the waters to make sure that it is speakable.

On 10/26/07, Penguino < spheniscine@gmail.com> wrote:
Seriously Jared, could you please lose some of that attitude? You have barely learned the language, and yet you come in barging with all these opinions about it, lunging at those who are trying to help you just because they couldn't come up with a word for "geodesic dome" within 24 hours. I bet similar problems also exist for languages that don't freely use borrowings, e.g. Chinese; only that Chinese has a lot more characters than Lojban has gismu. At least there exist systems in Lojban where borrowings can be used if you need a word now.


doi dajred

I don't think anyone has issues with you wanting to learn a bit about Lojban before you spend time learning it.

However, I do find your tone itself a bit inappropriate. As a very early beginner, you know very little about the language. I myself know not so much about the language. So it only makes sense that we ask our questions *nicely* to show respect for those who know the answer. Making bold pronouncements about how the language ought to have been is rather out of line until you understand how it *is*.

Lojban really hasn't changed much since the early days it was created anyhow, so change isn't terribly likely. If you decide you like Lojban, decide to like it as it is. If you want to see it grow, learn it. Teach it. Get pretty good, and volunteer to help with byfy work on the baseline. Once all of that gets done, and a dictionary gets published, then people might consider changes. But as far as I remember, the language has been frozen until then.

Tthat said, I hope you stick around and keep learning Lojban.

mu'o mi'e .aleks.



--
Jared

"There is no emotion, there is peace;  there is no ignorance, there is knowledge;  there is no passion, there is serenity;  there is no death, there is the Universe"

"Work smart when you can and hard if you must"

"When a system is corrupt then it's time for a reformat"

"Open Source: The light side of computing.  It's never too late to join" ------=_Part_11181_1727254.1193502577020--