From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Dec 31 21:30:07 2007 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J9ZhQ-0005Tq-AO for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:30:04 -0800 Received: from eastrmmtao105.cox.net ([68.230.240.47]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J9ZhI-0005Su-Fx for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:29:59 -0800 Received: from eastrmimpo01.cox.net ([68.1.16.119]) by eastrmmtao105.cox.net (InterMail vM.7.08.02.01 201-2186-121-102-20070209) with ESMTP id <20080101052940.XPTS15951.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net> for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 00:29:40 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([72.192.234.183]) by eastrmimpo01.cox.net with bizsmtp id XhUl1Y0083y5FKc0000000; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:28:46 -0500 Message-ID: <4779CF45.2040709@lojban.org> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 00:27:33 -0500 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: the black hole of keyworditis, was Re: confusing gismus References: <2f91285f0712300908l379651c5o91cde87e8b81960e@mail.gmail.com> <20071230110938.lvwyvup5kwsc04g4@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560712301407j353e0f17j264267c967937b91@mail.gmail.com> <20071230144732.4i70hzzqosk4ogcs@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560712310340j7a5cdf55l639a87dc1afd6c59@mail.gmail.com> <20071231134734.tgxeg0ra8gsoowko@webmail.ixkey.info> In-Reply-To: <20071231134734.tgxeg0ra8gsoowko@webmail.ixkey.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 102 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lojbab@lojban.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners mungojelly@ixkey.info wrote: > From the perspective of Lojban as a whole, though, that is somewhat > peripheral. What's centrally important is the meanings of the gismu. > That's the heart & soul of the language; everything else is just an > empty frame until it's filled with the semantic qualities of those > words. Right now the heart & soul of Lojban is trickling constantly > down the black hole, and [pe'isai] it's time for us to plug the drain. I have long reiterated that the keywords were NOT definitions, and were never intended to be. They were designed to be short and unique for typing into LogFlash when memorizing the words. The place structures are key, and when there are semantic issues not resolved by the place structures, we intended that they be explained in the notes at the end of each gismu entry out beyond column 160. But since the concept of baselining, which originally was intended to be only the words and the keywords, has been applied to the entire file, we currently have no official mechanism to record clarifications. I got chewed out by the community for making minor changes to the file on my own authority around 10-12 years ago, and so far as I know, no one has had the authority to make changes since then. I presume that there are unofficial collections of semantic clarifications of gismu somewhere in the wikispace, but I don't do anything involving online editing if I can help it, so I have little idea what is in the wikispace. But that is where I think such things should be for now. Eventually, if byfy can finish its more important work, it can look at editorial clarifications of the gismu list. lojbab