From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Tue Jan 01 09:15:34 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J9kiD-0003WE-DG for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:15:33 -0800 Received: from squid17.laughingsquid.net ([72.32.93.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1J9ki1-0003Un-Fk for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:15:33 -0800 Received: (qmail 9937 invoked by uid 48); 1 Jan 2008 09:15:15 -0800 Received: from c-24-63-92-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net (c-24-63-92-33.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.63.92.33]) by webmail.ixkey.info (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:15:14 -0800 Message-ID: <20080101091514.wxpdnp7aqskkkw04@webmail.ixkey.info> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 09:15:14 -0800 From: mungojelly@ixkey.info To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] di'e gimsnu be zo xanka, was Re: the black hole of keyworditis References: <2f91285f0712300908l379651c5o91cde87e8b81960e@mail.gmail.com> <20071230110938.lvwyvup5kwsc04g4@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560712301407j353e0f17j264267c967937b91@mail.gmail.com> <20071230144732.4i70hzzqosk4ogcs@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560712310340j7a5cdf55l639a87dc1afd6c59@mail.gmail.com> <20071231134734.tgxeg0ra8gsoowko@webmail.ixkey.info> <4779CF45.2040709@lojban.org> <20071231234906.p1i1u6qigww4osso@webmail.ixkey.info> <96f789a60801010503r3132c8d1w127278d2545b1fc4@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <96f789a60801010503r3132c8d1w127278d2545b1fc4@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 107 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@ixkey.info Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Quoting Michael Turniansky : > I know you picked this example "at random", but let me try you with this > example using all 3 places: I had a feeling that if I chose a gismu and pointed out how vague the definition was, it would provoke a gimsnu. That's exactly my point, that there is nothing between us and increased clarity about these meanings except for provoking a discussion, goi fo'a, and recording that discussion in a way which benefits future generations of learners, goi fo'e. Fo'a happens regularly anyway, though an argument could be made that it should be stimulated a little-- at one gismu a week it would take 27 years to touch upon all of them-- but fo'e is where we're really failing entirely at the moment. > la meris xanka lo nu selkavbu loi pulji kei lo nu tolselfla ke sutra > litru (Mary is nervous about being caught by the police, while speeding.) So it seems like what you're suggesting is that a terxanka is a situation in which there is something to worry about, and the selxanka is the negative consequence which could result from the terxanka. One thing I wonder about is whether there's an implication that the terxanka is a real situation. That is, you could be explicit by putting a "da'i" or a "da'inai" in the terxanka bridi, but which is more likely to be implied (absent a clear context)? It seems like "nervous" angles towards "da'inai," a real situation provoking a specific response, while "anxious" would suggest to me more "da'i", a sort of situation in which someone tends to react with anxiety. ki'e doi gejyspa .i mi nelci lonu ma'a gimsnu .ui.auro'ebe'u mu'o mi'e doi bret.