From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jan 05 07:09:57 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:09:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JBAeq-0004sQ-Gk for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:09:56 -0800 Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.159]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JBAel-0004s8-QG for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:09:56 -0800 Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e12so3452933fga.0 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:09:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=DnkyoMSam16eHvqx+ZD4Qmcwj0cBE4IlRGouQn92gWw=; b=jOzOMNup4oQRfzaA0s8iiufL4e1S6vD/nUH5TdIkRRlkdEUwaY//S01OPQjhuuFuaHxw2TtZ4ycQVJ1J30R6GytLHBjgUCTI/Mhl7L+kTZ6dhfJfkrmww8a8Wh2+ALLK5zj9OvSCOHJ5mQJIqg/65XKzGzSN3yJcMMvR+uDjxPc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=mQEb3QGcj8adC42YtVJq1e9EzSCgNIvaSLBvdk/+M+KibmvrA9VJidrmzKRNBZ3igGYyYHwpEQSFtZrg75jTFZJaZsGm8R47XWBAhEL9EXvnM2PRK6Zt6hylhgt3a3oFyNVLlzgnJcdHv8uIizY8NJk4m0JvWWvn4HXNETZ1FBc= Received: by 10.86.78.4 with SMTP id a4mr18001919fgb.0.1199545790075; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 07:09:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.86.1.11 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 07:09:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560801050709h358a3fe6ob7f0fce605ad082e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:09:50 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: on lojbanizing the place structure In-Reply-To: <2f91285f0801050608s26fece77ua75310c9172f7630@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <2f91285f0801050608s26fece77ua75310c9172f7630@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 159 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Jan 5, 2008 11:08 AM, Vid Sintef wrote: > What would a Lojbanic description of place structure be like on the > gimste? I have (naively) come up with this one: > > klama > fa-gau fe-mo'ifa'a fi-mo'ito'o fo-mo'ire'o fu-ta'i > > I suppose "fa lo jaigau", "fe lo jaimo'ifa'a" etc. would be > grammatically more appropriate, but also wordy, so I (ungrammatically) > simplified them. > > Suggestion please. I wrote the definition for {klama} based on {muvdu}, and for {muvdu} I have: x1 cenba lo ka ce'u zvati makau kei fe'e co'u x2 fe'e co'a x3 fe'e ca'o x4 The problem with {gau} for the x1 of klama is that {gau} is for making someone else do something, eventually making oneself do something, but "I go" is not the same as "I make myself go". {zu'e} in that sense would be better but it implies an intention that klama may not have. {fi'o cenba be lo ka ce'u zvati makau} would tag "that which changes its position". I went with {fe'e co'a}, {fe'e ca'o} and {fe'e co'u} for origin, route and destination because {fa'a} and {to'o} are really about direction, not necessarily sarting and ending points, as the x3 and x2 of klama. mu'o mi'e xorxes