From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jan 05 09:06:12 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:06:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JBCTM-0000NT-Bm for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:06:12 -0800 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.177]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JBCTG-0000N5-2S for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:06:12 -0800 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so2719738pyh.30 for ; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:06:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; bh=dQwiBaFfqRAknObKSQPH9dxBn1bkUfsmI3jqMZCZsNg=; b=n7k1oo5GL7Vo4g4rlytvd/aQtt+ccG7O7qiu5ewATEp2L6LpIv6nblXppoZY+6oJe6A51guvm4mohc5xguKQQqiyfFZGz+Sv3s14S9R74cG6F0x5xv9j1ZxypQnmbYxszg6pkxAkHqNB8nXRwXnxvUWSON1u9B9ukPl5lSNb3Nc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=VzTH88Xy+a5/9McSg+bw6zhi2B7avWKgG90smDHhaKNBnrTZJ/YnekHDWqlQTH0U484Ae9QH2UFVZHV0PoCnwT9H2fmiEaTF/okgHgbzRRs6L6B9N82y5trx0j0nYOSFgsz0McVz8n0uKwqs6ym7kcDGka7mhCFr88UMYrc+FF0= Received: by 10.142.73.8 with SMTP id v8mr2805157wfa.68.1199552762400; Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:06:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.153.4 with HTTP; Sat, 5 Jan 2008 09:06:02 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <12d58c160801050906x4defdb1ak700aa1fb8781695a@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 12:06:02 -0500 From: "komfo,amonan" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: towns and countries In-Reply-To: <68BCEC2D-A1C2-4CB6-BF33-116A76C1F907@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_33471_9505718.1199552762385" References: <277258.55446.qm@web27710.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> <68BCEC2D-A1C2-4CB6-BF33-116A76C1F907@gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 4b17b7ac5deb5760 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 161 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_33471_9505718.1199552762385 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Jan 5, 2008 7:18 AM, Yoav Nir wrote: > I think that using a language like that does not facilitate > communications very well. If I refer to the city of {ierucalai,im}, > few Americans or Englishmen would recognize Jerusalem. Similarly, if > English-speaking people write {florens} or {neipyls}, Italians might > not recognize Firenze or Napoli, and if I write about the country > {tsarfat}, no Frenchman is going to recognize that. (Immediate) recognition is not really an issue. Lojban is for now a foreign language for everyone, so one has to learn the names of towns just as one learns them in other languages. When you're learning Mandarin, you have to learn that 'Philadelphia' is 'fei4 cheng2' in order to be understood. Similarly, when you're learning Lojban, you have to learn 'filydElfi,ys.', 'sankt. pitirbUrk.' (Saint Petersburg, Russia), 'seint. pItrzbyrg.' (Saint Petersburg, USA), 'sur.' (Tyre, Lebanon). One advantage of using local names for towns in Lojban is that Lojban speakers, whatever their mother tongue, can be confident of understanding each other. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan ------=_Part_33471_9505718.1199552762385 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline On Jan 5, 2008 7:18 AM, Yoav Nir <yoav.nir@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that using a language like that does not facilitate
communications very well. If I refer to the city of {ierucalai,im},
few Americans or Englishmen would recognize Jerusalem. Similarly, if
English-speaking people write {florens} or {neipyls}, Italians might
not recognize Firenze or Napoli, and if I write about the country
{tsarfat}, no Frenchman is going to recognize that.

(Immediate) recognition is not really an issue. Lojban is for now a foreign language for everyone, so one has to learn the names of towns just as one learns them in other languages. When you're learning Mandarin, you have to learn that 'Philadelphia' is 'fei4 cheng2' in order to be understood. Similarly, when you're learning Lojban, you have to learn 'filydElfi,ys.', 'sankt. pitirbUrk.' (Saint Petersburg, Russia), 'seint. pItrzbyrg.' (Saint Petersburg, USA), 'sur.' (Tyre, Lebanon).

One advantage of using local names for towns in Lojban is that Lojban speakers, whatever their mother tongue, can be confident of understanding each other.

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan

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