From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Mon Jan 07 14:45:00 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JC0iJ-0002qn-IC for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:45:00 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.186]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JC0iD-0002qG-1P for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:44:59 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so5810362rvf.46 for ; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:44:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=rzl5FShq9xoT9I30TD5JWmkkb2elEyD0lKdxn0+JFzo=; b=jptgfMj/bk9n/MMwIvki3OH2hwC5YY0NklKP6leDvske9h476neFAZhvy0YQ1DNSMdpXF8cKG2UYy39LG7b4pUDYrax7icIDPF4Zb2r1GGjAzFVJYd/T/aSsCLVl6T7hFnAAKItlSsNukqOsnG2u8AQ7/ebUMzf4PgNm2XOAXQU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=dh+CuiOmEkdzuKKBrZj4xZ8b51WhBE7nF2Y42rzYJ+7sB+yFqOsPJyHSw36ATgcBcuNCiwuwQkK3ETPMLww3oXUjqrfjw7ajcuD+PrN2r9QiM7nF3xJrFSrKTKz/TzrPPIN8+PLeETNqTNt6v76isGKHCDCrDgZfMGpsHBmNaAc= Received: by 10.141.113.6 with SMTP id q6mr10970108rvm.36.1199745890964; Mon, 07 Jan 2008 14:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.70.10 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:44:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <925d17560801071444k71b98c50h38879b1c9451ba3e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 19:44:50 -0300 From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?=" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zo .e'e In-Reply-To: <20080107141153.pki44f5eassogwc4@webmail.ixkey.info> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20080105225008.k2wyw47jywwowc44@webmail.ixkey.info> <925d17560801060549r667c5c87kcdbf542852bce09d@mail.gmail.com> <20080107141153.pki44f5eassogwc4@webmail.ixkey.info> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 181 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Jan 7, 2008 7:11 PM, wrote: > > OK, so ".e'e" isn't a feeling of being confident, it's a feeling that > someone is capable (possibly yourself). I would put it as "showing an attitude of encouragement or exhortation", rather than "feeling" anything, just as I wouldn't say {e'a} is a feeling of permissiveness, or {e'u} a feeling of suggestiveness, or {e'o} a "feeling of request". Attitudinals often can be used to express feelings, but then again it is not always feelings that they express. > How about ".ei"? I had been thinking it's your own obligation, can it > be someone else's? In my understanding, {ei} is used to indicate not anyone's obligation, but how the speaker feels things ought to be. For example: ei lo forca cu pritu lo palta The fork ought to go to the right of the plate. That's obviously not an oblgation of the fork, nor directly of any person. But when there is an agent involved, expressing how things ought to be is very close to expressing an obigation of the agent: ei la djan klama le zarci It ought to be the case that John goes to the market. John ought to go to the market. > Or is that what ".e'i" means, that someone is > "constrained"/obligated to do something? I undestand "e'i", in the light of the e-series roughly corresponding to the imperative mood, as imposing an obligation: e'i la djan klama le zarci Let John go to the market. (Not "let" in the sense of "allow", but English is not very good with third person imperatives.) So: e'a: grant permission e'e: give encouragement e'i: impose an obligation e'o: pose a request e'u: offer a suggestion mu'o mi'e xorxes