From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Thu Jan 17 22:24:40 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:24:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JFked-0005c6-DQ for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:24:39 -0800 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JFkeV-0005b7-VN for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:24:39 -0800 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so738713rvf.46 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:24:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; bh=cd7RwtQaINnCha3DwgeYnCgybGc3t2aF6L7ognr/2Ic=; b=Ck2wy+T4j8B6hTSyvkVS1Q+1LzXO9m8txKVNXlOvK/R8S/LtD7Zxnselcm0iVVXd/n1/U3VycF0XYmRVljhD9k5xyAAfSEwFUMboKxEZwZRufOz1VTtqJy0W/nY+U9ZYyDseZE4IQm72TFtpsTsuQqdcCnHG6MBfbqJmWEOYQSQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type; b=lWwwapyqY8uKtSCcgtuDDgeDdUsZKQMpQOUZQjGyUsLzgCiYsuseYfvh+2RH8ZAbSDSxbfdY0lPkx0yfyIZRVsz5SGcHVaEaHE0tDVmvxA0Mv1h6mQybaeneiDHnq+ql/uP+tpz7MQy+2tLVvh+BCgQRnzqqcI3PqC29WeBzrcA= Received: by 10.141.161.6 with SMTP id n6mr2110235rvo.155.1200637467438; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.147.16 with HTTP; Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:24:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <97f5058c0801172224pee68c10nbdc478ce4b233b2d@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:24:27 +0800 From: Penguino To: lojban-beginners Subject: [lojban-beginners] gimsnu: cnino/slabu vs. citno/tolci'o MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2436_10313699.1200637467445" X-Spam-Score: 0.3 X-Spam-Score-Int: 3 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 273 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: spheniscine@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners ------=_Part_2436_10313699.1200637467445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The definitions and place structures of [cnino] and [slabu] imply the concept of subjective familiarity as opposed to objective age. Whereas [citno] lacks an observer, and says "relatively short in elapsed duration", and so implies an objective standard. Given this, the translation of "I got a new car" depends on whether it was newly made (citno), or whether it simply means that I recently acquired one that is novel to me, though it might be used (cnino). This is contradicted, however, by the notes in [slabu], that include the concept of age, and by *mably*keyword-affected usage that tends to use [citno] for living things and [cnino] for objects. Come to think of it, why isn't there a *gismu* for [tolci'o], except for the unofficial Loglan *fukygi'u* [laldo]? ------=_Part_2436_10313699.1200637467445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline The definitions and place structures of [cnino] and [slabu] imply the concept of subjective familiarity as opposed to objective age. Whereas [citno] lacks an observer, and says "relatively short in elapsed duration", and so implies an objective standard.

Given this, the translation of "I got a new car" depends on whether it was newly made (citno), or whether it simply means that I recently acquired one that is novel to me, though it might be used (cnino).

This is contradicted, however, by the notes in [slabu], that include the concept of age, and by mablykeyword-affected usage that tends to use [citno] for living things and [cnino] for objects.

Come to think of it, why isn't there a gismu for [tolci'o], except for the unofficial Loglan fukygi'u [laldo]?
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