From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Sat Jan 26 18:03:46 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JIws6-00015A-40 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:03:46 -0800 Received: from squid17.laughingsquid.net ([72.32.93.144]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JIws1-00014x-Fd for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:03:45 -0800 Received: (qmail 25984 invoked by uid 48); 26 Jan 2008 18:03:29 -0800 Received: from c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net (c-75-68-233-37.hsd1.vt.comcast.net [75.68.233.37]) by webmail.ixkey.info (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:03:29 -0800 Message-ID: <20080126180329.8s40o3qbs4gokwc0@webmail.ixkey.info> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:03:29 -0800 From: mungojelly@ixkey.info To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Ask for translation: very erotic very violence References: <3e3b81fd0801260153k52eebb82rb1e82339cdeb6e85@mail.gmail.com> <200801260834.27832.phma@phma.optus.nu> <3e3b81fd0801261613i207bbed3ub21e78cb0b6894c@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3e3b81fd0801261613i207bbed3ub21e78cb0b6894c@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.1.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 294 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mungojelly@ixkey.info Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners Quoting Earth Engine : > I think this would be a better translation: > > mutce cinse jek mutce vlile > > or > > mutce ke cinse jek vlile ke'e > > or even > > sai cinse jek vlile "cinse" is probably the right gismu, but I think the second place of "cinse" may be more appropriate. "cinse" is a relationship between: x1, a sexual person x2, a situation in which they are sexual x3, the sexuality or sexual role they enact x4, the standard by which that action is sexual So number two, a "selcinse" is a situation in which sexual things take place, which I think would be most appropriate here. ("vlile" only has one place, a violent event or situation.) Here's one attempt: "mutce bo selcinse je mutce bo vlile" Very much a sexual situation and very violent. Since it seems like the phrase has some meaning of its own distinct from its parts, it may be best translated as a lujvo. The lujvo "tceselcinjvetcevlile" (full form: "mutcyselcinsyjvemutcyvlile") matches the form of the translation I just gave. By my understanding of lujvo I think it could be shortened as far as "tcecintcevlile" (long form: "mutcycinsymutcyvlile") if you wanted, but perhaps it ought to have at least the "sel" before the "cin": "tceselcintcevlile" That seems like a mess, so here's another idea: Forego the "very" part, and say: "selcinjvevlile" (long form: "selcinsyjvevlile") -- sexual and violent. That word isn't used yet that I know of, and I think it could carry this sense. What's the original Chinese phrase? Is it a chengyu? mu'o mi'e la mungodjelis. no'u la bret.