From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Feb 20 16:43:34 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:43:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JRzXB-0003CG-Fe for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:43:33 -0800 Received: from py-out-1112.google.com ([64.233.166.182]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.68) (envelope-from ) id 1JRzX6-0003Bw-Qx for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:43:33 -0800 Received: by py-out-1112.google.com with SMTP id b50so2921723pyh.30 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:43:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=jXHmakgZlvNvYjJr7ybPXKgtMReKYx9QKPwFqQucyOs=; b=UHmbj5uJCEHUoCPa5zSvw5gSHiWxR3j2MInKTXnbT4Ev3a34q87jDC6+CPwP88/OgO/E0A+ERqzOQ51EEpDwG4RW6ghJuKkj6P4RoI0KxTWFoOZvXlvybS5mNDSldLUEO41RCpTw2GnoMg0Y/A+J27Vuc3XxrxFMfuMzoTx4rg8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=oAEiN6P8/Gq9qJK4cCVl8hYDNRkRZHVnB65RxwEgFp5QAgelgQoeR4QHN0NEJ5a52r1cZVTlvIHts+tZb1dbpJgFdbB4xs98tJZtvh5f6AF5QsK3o5a5jWOiNY6Q/Kc5nhb5kqu7G9OaokMtUsLl3AkLcJ0Oih70laQPSrjNG1I= Received: by 10.141.163.12 with SMTP id q12mr6187642rvo.265.1203554603992; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:43:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.141.69.2 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Feb 2008 16:43:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <96f789a60802201643p6759e19v3044dd960d36d665@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2008 19:43:23 -0500 From: "Michael Turniansky" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: zei and cmavo rafsi In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 372 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 3:54 PM, wrote: > In a message dated 2/20/2008 04:22:40 AM Central Standard Time, ecartis@digitalkingdom.org writes: > > > > > > [...] If you WANTED to add cmavo to a lujvo, you have to do it > > > > > > with the aid of "zei" ("lujvo glue") in between. > > > > > > This is true for "ka'o", but not for cmavo in general, as many cmavo have > > their own rafsi. > > > > No, it's true for ANY cmavo. If you wanted to add a rafsi OF a > cmavo (if it has one), then you wouldn't need the zei. There, now the > imprecision is on the other foot. :-) > --gejyspa > > > > He said "you have to do it with the aid of "zei" ..." > This is true of "ka'o'". It's not true for all cmavo. Since many cmavo have rafsi, it's not usually necessary to use "zei" with them. > It's *possible* to "zei" with any cmavo, whether it has a rafsi or not. It's only required when the cmavo has no rafsi. > Perhaps I was being too pedantic to be understood. You can neither add cmavo nor fu'ivla nor even gismu to lujvo without the use of zei. You can ONLY add rafsi without using zei. That there are rafsi derived from cmavo (nd indeed, in some case identical in form to the underlying cmavo) and gismu is immaterial. --gejyspa