From nobody@digitalkingdom.org Wed Apr 02 07:41:40 2008 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list lojban-beginners); Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jh49k-0007tz-05 for lojban-beginners-real@lojban.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:41:40 -0700 Received: from rv-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.198.190]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Jh49X-0007cj-D0 for lojban-beginners@lojban.org; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:41:39 -0700 Received: by rv-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b22so1478539rvf.46 for ; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=IG7Ls/pidLLmpVHAOejQXTkiQkx6RoCfngEpgm/CP2I=; b=GX1M5P9Wtg9qtPnBBeyMU8qgwin/2Ya/lnxbKTKAIJ8cHkbmjWkaa1YHhchUJxgKkE4gonFzMOS1tYweTBWO9AnxDJTQjd5PqceY6wjriEwQfoCDa8l/IT44iHR+aIQBC1EmiEV+P21aP817Ns7syHbuBk2Dej5nt+1GT6U6DRg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=bf9V6WE+uPkUddnRFkUXX8NaTH4JZhw/Peutm5fhbMOJTyQzrRIbQ5tNw0vFdpCTehhjW4f/1xubniavodh/3r/Kj3eHGbri8mHnSFf6JAzlq5FS0haR/CjjsL2e7GcrxE9bBH2e9fJZqFPwfMC4NEHIyNzYuWJ2f+7dVBQoXcI= Received: by 10.141.43.5 with SMTP id v5mr5016463rvj.49.1207147286575; Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.65.72.8 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 03:41:26 +1300 From: "LakMeer Kravid" To: lojban-beginners@lojban.org Subject: [lojban-beginners] Re: Newbie help please - music lyrics In-Reply-To: <925d17560804020702w7d0a6291j9063639b01d3f897@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline References: <925d17560804020702w7d0a6291j9063639b01d3f897@mail.gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -0.0 X-Spam-Score-Int: 0 X-Spam-Bar: / X-archive-position: 439 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: lojban-beginners-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lakmeerkravid@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: lojban-beginners@lojban.org X-list: lojban-beginners On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 3:02 AM, Jorge Llambías wrote: > 1- Notice the order of the arguments in {dunda}: x2 is the thing given, > x3 is the receiver. It makes some sense in the first case: "gives men > to the imaginary-hater" but not so much in the second case with > the weapons. > > 2- Do you really want "man" as in {nanmu}, or as in {remna}? > Being a religious theme I expect something more general, or > at least I would want to know who are the women given to > (or what are they given). > > 3- {lo xebni} is not hate but someone who hates, in case you > mean it as the object given rather than the receiver of the gift. > > 4- You can use {le voksa be da} for someone's voice. > {pe} is not wrong, but the resulting association is not as > straightforward as when using the x2 of {voksa}. > > 5- {go'i jvijva} is a tanru, where {go'i} modifies {jvijva}. Not wrong, > but perhaps you want {di'u jvijva}. > > 6- You need {doi jdatib} to mark the name as a vocative. The > name by itself is ungrammatical there. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes Wow, thanks, thats really quite helpful. I can't believe I missed 1 and 2. You're totally bang on with 3 as well although I'm not sure how I'd fix it (intended meaning: 'imaginary hate' and it is now clear how I got it wrong, ki'e) Does 4 suggest that {le zgivo'a pe le fetcei cu} can become {le zgivo'a le fetcei cu} be just dropping {pe}, and if so, is {cu} still appropriate if the intended meaning is "The singing-voice of the goddess gives men(humans, that is) imaginary hate."? 5: If {di'u} refers specifically to the utterance, does that include the concept that it conveys? The intension of that line is that what I just said is an example of the rules of the game. 6: Actually that last line is rubbish. I'll need to rethink that, its not supposed to be vocative at all. Updated lyrics, where I'm aware that {xarxei} is incorrect but at this stage i'm unsure of how to correct it: le zgivo'a le fetcei cu dunda le xarxei lo remna .i a'onai go'i jvijva .e'unai .e'unai le jvijva le midvo'a le jdaka'i cu dunda le xarxa'i lo remna .i a'onai go'i jvijva .e'unai .e'unai le jvijva thanks heaps xorxes, mu'o